Taycan has Torch Boy issues too

[32wildbilly]

In the latest edition of Panorama there is a quick blip about a Panamera does it's own "Flame On!" impersonation in a garage in Florida. Porsche was all "if they need anything we are ready to help." Yeah, Thanks! Seems like the same tactic they took with IMSB back in the day. I guess Tesla doesn't have the patent on spontaneous unplanned deconstruction.

[FRUNKenstein]

Panamera or Taycan? I haven’t read this month’s Panorama yet.

[32wildbilly]

Panamera or Taycan? I haven’t read this month’s Panorama yet.

Sorry Taycan. Good catch, thanks.

[Battery Guy]

Porsche was all "if they need anything we are ready to help."

Yes, they need a new car. Under warranty...
Daryll

[Dr_Strangelove]

So Tesla sighs a big sigh of relief. If this can happen to the great Porsche then spontaneous combustion is a broader teething issue for the technology. I wish I had access to the issues from early gasoline cars - the only one I know of is broken wrists, arms, dislocated elbows from starter motors that were turned by hand.

[gnat]

So why is it we hear about EVs bursting into flames like this, but not hybrids? It's not as big, but hybrids still have an insane amount of potential energy stored in their batteries. Is there something inherently different about the pure EV design that makes shorting batteries more likely? Or is it simply a numbers game that with more cells they are more likely to have a bad one?

[Battery Guy]

So why is it we hear about EVs bursting into flames like this, but not hybrids? It's not as big, but hybrids still have an insane amount of potential energy stored in their batteries. Is there something inherently different about the pure EV design that makes shorting batteries more likely? Or is it simply a numbers game that with more cells they are more likely to have a bad one?

The vast majority of hybrids use nickel metal hydride batteries which are much safer than the lithium cobalt batteries used in pure EV's. The only hybrids that I'm aware of that use lithium batteries are the Prius Prime (like a super-Prius), the MB S-Class hybrid, and maybe the Porsche hybrids. Everything else uses nickel metal hydride. Also the hybrid batteries are much smaller than pure EV batteries - I have not heard of any catching fire, even the lithium ones.

There are safer lithium technologies out there but the trade-off is range.
Daryll

[gnat]

So why is it we hear about EVs bursting into flames like this, but not hybrids? It's not as big, but hybrids still have an insane amount of potential energy stored in their batteries. Is there something inherently different about the pure EV design that makes shorting batteries more likely? Or is it simply a numbers game that with more cells they are more likely to have a bad one?

The vast majority of hybrids use nickel metal hydride batteries which are much safer than the lithium cobalt batteries used in pure EV's. The only hybrids that I'm aware of that use lithium batteries are the Prius Prime (like a super-Prius), the MB S-Class hybrid, and maybe the Porsche hybrids. Everything else uses nickel metal hydride. Also the hybrid batteries are much smaller than pure EV batteries - I have not heard of any catching fire, even the lithium ones.

There are safer lithium technologies out there but the trade-off is range.
Daryll

Interesting. I know the early hybrids used NiMH, but I thought LiON had long since replaced them in the more modern (last 5-10 years) cars. Just from the significant weight/space savings if nothing else...

NiHM would explain it though since the discharge rate (in a short situation) is much slower and they are far more heat tolerant than the LiONs (in regards to going boom).

[Battery Guy]

The vast majority of hybrids use nickel metal hydride batteries which are much safer than the lithium cobalt batteries used in pure EV's. The only hybrids that I'm aware of that use lithium batteries are the Prius Prime (like a super-Prius), the MB S-Class hybrid, and maybe the Porsche hybrids. Everything else uses nickel metal hydride. Also the hybrid batteries are much smaller than pure EV batteries - I have not heard of any catching fire, even the lithium ones.

There are safer lithium technologies out there but the trade-off is range.
Daryll

Interesting. I know the early hybrids used NiMH, but I thought LiON had long since replaced them in the more modern (last 5-10 years) cars. Just from the significant weight/space savings if nothing else...

I forgot an important one - the Chevy Volt also used lithium batteries. My guess is that GM probably had a lot more fail-safe built into the Volt than Tesla used. It really does kind of concern me that Porsche had a car-b-que out of a new Taycan. There are three parts to making a safe lithium battery pack - 1 - make sure that the cells themselves are high quality and well tested. 2 - make sure that the battery pack itself is wired up correctly and has plenty of internal safety like circuit breakers and fusible links where necessary. 3. The battery management system (BMS) has to be pretty much fail safe. Easier said than done, and more expensive too. This is one of the reasons that we saw the cheap Chinese hoverboards burning up a couple of years ago, but Segway’s rarely caught fire.

Hopefully Porsche gets quickly on this as the last thing that they an afford is a reputation for poor quality batteries and/or unsafe BMS system.
Daryll

NiHM would explain it though since the discharge rate (in a short situation) is much slower and they are far more heat tolerant than the LiONs (in regards to going boom).

[gnat]

It really does kind of concern me that Porsche had a car-b-que out of a new Taycan.

Don't forget the 991 GT3RS (or was it the plain GT3?) when it first came out. They made all the owners stop driving them until they fixed it.