Racetrack Stuff

[DTMiller]

Difficult day instructing yesterday. Email I sent a few buddies sums it up the best I can:

It is not far fetched to say that it is shocking that this guy managed to get the car to the paddock from his house.

50+ year old 0/0 day guy in a GTI. Will not listen to literally anything I say during the first session. It was like he had assigned all possible vehicle inputs to a number and was doing whatever the random number generator told him to do.

Sample:
Me: I need you to bring the car back to the right side of the track.

Him: Brakes.

Me: No, no not brakes. Gas here, and car needs to be on the right. The right. Move to the right. The right. Ok, now lift and brake.

Him: Gas.

Me: Brake brake brake BRAKE

I asked him to do a point by and he said "WHAT?? NO! I CANT DO THAT" So I'm doing all of the point bys out the right window, which is literally 3-4 cars per passing zone. A miata in group 1 passed us multiple times a session.

He at one point crossed s/f at 47 mph.

He keeps saying things like he's worried the brakes are going to get too hot. Announcer: THEY WERE NOT.

After session one I invited him to sit with me and make a plan. I start talking to him about what we are trying to do and some basic concepts. He keeps interrupting me and isn't really listening. I'm getting frustrated and I start explaining how we should be using the brakes and he interrupts to tell me that he was getting pretty good by the end of the session. I then half (fully?) snapped and said you know, maybe you should go out with Brian next session, I'm not sure we're connecting.

I then tried the "what do you do for a living, you're an expert at that, right? You'd be skeptical if I just showed up and tried to do what you do, right? Brian and I are experts at this, if you listen we can help you." To which he responds "but you might know some stuff about what I do" which is code for "I'm doing good out there, you're wrong"

Brian takes him in session 2 and it's a shit show.

I take him in session 3, repeat of session 1. He doesn't remember the first thing about where to put the car. Every lap, every sequence I'm telling him where to put the car, he's not doing it. Every corner entrance is too fast somehow despite crawling around the track. We're the first car to ever run a 2:20 lap that is in near constant imminent danger of hitting a tire wall.

At one point I decide to see what happens if I shut up to see if that would help. What resulted was the most heinous lap I've ever seen. Picture where a car should be at any point in a lap. His car was never in that place except during those brief moments when the car passed through the proper place on it's way to the wrong place from the wrong place.

I'm still doing all the point bys. The miata passes us 3 times in 25 minutes.

In session four with Brian managing him I timed him. 2:17 lap. During session 4.

I have no idea if he had fun. Brian and I tried to make it fun, Brian did a better job than me, I think.

[32wildbilly]

Difficult day instructing yesterday. Email I sent a few buddies sums it up the best I can:

It is not far fetched to say that it is shocking that this guy managed to get the car to the paddock from his house.

50+ year old 0/0 day guy in a GTI. Will not listen to literally anything I say during the first session. It was like he had assigned all possible vehicle inputs to a number and was doing whatever the random number generator told him to do.

Sample:
Me: I need you to bring the car back to the right side of the track.

Him: Brakes.

Me: No, no not brakes. Gas here, and car needs to be on the right. The right. Move to the right. The right. Ok, now lift and brake.

Him: Gas.

Me: Brake brake brake BRAKE

I asked him to do a point by and he said "WHAT?? NO! I CANT DO THAT" So I'm doing all of the point bys out the right window, which is literally 3-4 cars per passing zone. A miata in group 1 passed us multiple times a session.

He at one point crossed s/f at 47 mph.

He keeps saying things like he's worried the brakes are going to get too hot. Announcer: THEY WERE NOT.

After session one I invited him to sit with me and make a plan. I start talking to him about what we are trying to do and some basic concepts. He keeps interrupting me and isn't really listening. I'm getting frustrated and I start explaining how we should be using the brakes and he interrupts to tell me that he was getting pretty good by the end of the session. I then half (fully?) snapped and said you know, maybe you should go out with Brian next session, I'm not sure we're connecting.

I then tried the "what do you do for a living, you're an expert at that, right? You'd be skeptical if I just showed up and tried to do what you do, right? Brian and I are experts at this, if you listen we can help you." To which he responds "but you might know some stuff about what I do" which is code for "I'm doing good out there, you're wrong"

Brian takes him in session 2 and it's a shit show.

I take him in session 3, repeat of session 1. He doesn't remember the first thing about where to put the car. Every lap, every sequence I'm telling him where to put the car, he's not doing it. Every corner entrance is too fast somehow despite crawling around the track. We're the first car to ever run a 2:20 lap that is in near constant imminent danger of hitting a tire wall.

At one point I decide to see what happens if I shut up to see if that would help. What resulted was the most heinous lap I've ever seen. Picture where a car should be at any point in a lap. His car was never in that place except during those brief moments when the car passed through the proper place on it's way to the wrong place from the wrong place.

I'm still doing all the point bys. The miata passes us 3 times in 25 minutes.

In session four with Brian managing him I timed him. 2:17 lap. During session 4.

I have no idea if he had fun. Brian and I tried to make it fun, Brian did a better job than me, I think.

Some people have a blatant disregard for someone who really knows when they think they know better. Surprised you didn't cuss him or direct him to the pits and just get out and walk away. Both you and Brian have much more patience that I do.

[gnat]

Don't you guys have the ability to terminate their day? Sounds like that should have been done after the second track session after it was clear a change of instructor wasn't going to help. Sounds like this guy was probably ruining other's track time if not being an outright danger.

[DTMiller]

Don't you guys have the ability to terminate their day? Sounds like that should have been done after the second track session after it was clear a change of instructor wasn't going to help. Sounds like this guy was probably ruining other's track time if not being an outright danger.

Yes, and if he was fast and not listening we would have in a heartbeat. He wasn't likely to hurt anyone and sometimes those guys break out of their shell so you keep plugging away trying to make a difference. When you do it feels great. But you don't always. I'd refuse to get in his car again and I would recommend he not be permitted to attend an event if asked.

[32wildbilly]

Don't you guys have the ability to terminate their day? Sounds like that should have been done after the second track session after it was clear a change of instructor wasn't going to help. Sounds like this guy was probably ruining other's track time if not being an outright danger.

Yes, and if he was fast and not listening we would have in a heartbeat. He wasn't likely to hurt anyone and sometimes those guys break out of their shell so you keep plugging away trying to make a difference. When you do it feels great. But you don't always. I'd refuse to get in his car again and I would recommend he not be permitted to attend an event if asked.

Like I said you guys are "patient"(the adjective). I forgot to ask what do you think was his issue with giving a point by?

[DTMiller]

Yes, and if he was fast and not listening we would have in a heartbeat. He wasn't likely to hurt anyone and sometimes those guys break out of their shell so you keep plugging away trying to make a difference. When you do it feels great. But you don't always. I'd refuse to get in his car again and I would recommend he not be permitted to attend an event if asked.

Like I said you guys are "patient"(the adjective). I forgot to ask what do you think was his issue with giving a point by?

I think he was just overwhelmed by all of it and had psyched himself out to the point that taking his hand off the wheel meant certain death.

[32wildbilly]

Like I said you guys are "patient"(the adjective). I forgot to ask what do you think was his issue with giving a point by?

I think he was just overwhelmed by all of it and had psyched himself out to the point that taking his hand off the wheel meant certain death.

That might have been the one thing he had right!

[gnat]

Like I said you guys are "patient"(the adjective). I forgot to ask what do you think was his issue with giving a point by?

I think he was just overwhelmed by all of it and had psyched himself out to the point that taking his hand off the wheel meant certain death.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt there. The newbie goes in thinking it's going to be easy and you just have to focus on your lines. Then the rubber gets on the track and you are hit with the reality of how much you need to focus on at one time. So I can get not wanting to give attention to what is behind you. Hell I think I only saw one flag person the whole day and I was trying to watch for them!

That doesn't explain or excuse the rest of his actions/attitude though. A smart person quickly recognizes being overwhelmed and starts taking experienced advice. He does not sound like a smart person...

[DTMiller]

I think he was just overwhelmed by all of it and had psyched himself out to the point that taking his hand off the wheel meant certain death.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt there. The newbie goes in thinking it's going to be easy and you just have to focus on your lines. Then the rubber gets on the track and you are hit with the reality of how much you need to focus on at one time. So I can get not wanting to give attention to what is behind you. Hell I think I only saw one flag person the whole day and I was trying to watch for them!

That doesn't explain or excuse the rest of his actions/attitude though. A smart person quickly recognizes being overwhelmed and starts taking experienced advice. He does not sound like a smart person...

Yeah, I've ridden with literally hundreds of people at this point and 99% listen at least some and most a fair bit. Gnat, and most people in your spot, are well inside the standard bell curve of being mildly blown away by how complex it can be but then taking some quiet time to let it sink in and then going out and starting to hammer some solid laps together and generally everyone has fun.

I did a check out ride with a more advanced driver to approve him to be solo and it was such a delight. Hit his marks. Didn't scare me at all (despite being waaaaay faster) and after about midway through I offered up a few tips and he gave them a try and made some incremental progress and it was fun.

Not sure what my point is at this point other than to remind myself why I do this.

[DTMiller]

New addition to the signature block which I'm pretty happy about.