Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

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32wildbilly
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Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by 32wildbilly » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:06 pm

...it tolls for me.

#6...of course! Compression test on #6 220#'s so scoring is still low in cylinder. #5 has some "scuffing, as well. Indi claims #6 plug fouled with oil creating code P0306. I'm going to change all plugs, coils and injectors, then... well...decision time. @55k miles. Oil consumption approx. 20 oz. per 1000 miles with most driving just puttering around town. I'm betting on a leaky injector and subsequent fuel washing oil from cylinder.

Words to the wise: if you have a sooty tailpipe, some oil consumption and hearing a "ticking" especially on the passenger side don't ignore it.
6[1].jpg
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by gnat » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:20 pm

Unfortunately once you see symptoms, it's already too late.

Two schools of thought here:

1) Get pro-active and rebuild it with a full tear down and cleaning. This is the Raby advised method.

2) Drive it until it pops. Might be next week or it might be 100k from now.

If you listen to Jake (and I'm not arguing you don't), the metal has already spread through the oil system and is causing other issues. Thus you need to do a total rebuild. His opinion is to do the rebuild sooner rather than later as more parts can be salvaged.

On the other hand, on RL there was someone in Canada that just lived with the ticking and sooty tail pipes. I believe he got another few years and about 100k out of the car the last I saw.

Your car and your checkbook, but scored bores aren't as immediately disastrous as other 996 issues.

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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by 32wildbilly » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:39 pm

gnat wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:20 pm
Unfortunately once you see symptoms, it's already too late.

Two schools of thought here:

1) Get pro-active and rebuild it with a full tear down and cleaning. This is the Raby advised method.

2) Drive it until it pops. Might be next week or it might be 100k from now.

If you listen to Jake (and I'm not arguing you don't), the metal has already spread through the oil system and is causing other issues. Thus you need to do a total rebuild. His opinion is to do the rebuild sooner rather than later as more parts can be salvaged.

On the other hand, on RL there was someone in Canada that just lived with the ticking and sooty tail pipes. I believe he got another few years and about 100k out of the car the last I saw.

Your car and your checkbook, but scored bores aren't as immediately disastrous as other 996 issues.
Yeah.. Jake was just on Rennlist(dammit) going through all of this, again, within the last week. I realize the risks and options. In the past I heard it was always being blamed on super cold weather starts. Now it seems to be blamed on faulty injectors due to crappy fuel leaking into the cylinder of a hot shutdown engine. Either way I'm jammed right now. I reviewed RND. Downside is then your Indi has to put it together and do all kinds of initial startup and preliminary break-in. I'm thinking I would rather have Jake do that.Thanks for your input.

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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by b3freak » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:55 pm

32wildbilly wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:39 pm
gnat wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:20 pm
Unfortunately once you see symptoms, it's already too late.

Two schools of thought here:

1) Get pro-active and rebuild it with a full tear down and cleaning. This is the Raby advised method.

2) Drive it until it pops. Might be next week or it might be 100k from now.

If you listen to Jake (and I'm not arguing you don't), the metal has already spread through the oil system and is causing other issues. Thus you need to do a total rebuild. His opinion is to do the rebuild sooner rather than later as more parts can be salvaged.

On the other hand, on RL there was someone in Canada that just lived with the ticking and sooty tail pipes. I believe he got another few years and about 100k out of the car the last I saw.

Your car and your checkbook, but scored bores aren't as immediately disastrous as other 996 issues.
Yeah.. Jake was just on Rennlist(dammit) going through all of this, again, within the last week. I realize the risks and options. In the past I heard it was always being blamed on super cold weather starts. Now it seems to be blamed on faulty injectors due to crappy fuel leaking into the cylinder of a hot shutdown engine. Either way I'm jammed right now. I reviewed RND. Downside is then your Indi has to put it together and do all kinds of initial startup and preliminary break-in. I'm thinking I would rather have Jake do that.Thanks for your input.
Sorry about this. I'm the one that encouraged you to bore scope cylinder #6 because "it was the devil" and look... the devil has showed up to dance with you in the pale moon light! Ugh... that sucks. But it's NOT the end of the world man. Jake has said that this is actually a "good failure" to have if caught soon enough. Why not plan to reconstruct the motor and up it a 3.8 or better? The man to handle this is just two counties over from me up in Cleveland!
2002 Porsche 996 Carrera - bare bones basic, but still a blast to drive! Heck, I don't even have PSM on it. Ha!

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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by b3freak » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:01 pm

Bill, you think you could get some video of the ticking sound? Maybe post to YouTube or something? This would be very resourceful. Not trying to add insult to injury, but apparently, the bore scoring problem is going to on the rise as these motors age. Thanks buddy!
2002 Porsche 996 Carrera - bare bones basic, but still a blast to drive! Heck, I don't even have PSM on it. Ha!

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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by 32wildbilly » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:39 pm

b3freak wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:55 pm
32wildbilly wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:39 pm


Yeah.. Jake was just on Rennlist(dammit) going through all of this, again, within the last week. I realize the risks and options. In the past I heard it was always being blamed on super cold weather starts. Now it seems to be blamed on faulty injectors due to crappy fuel leaking into the cylinder of a hot shutdown engine. Either way I'm jammed right now. I reviewed RND. Downside is then your Indi has to put it together and do all kinds of initial startup and preliminary break-in. I'm thinking I would rather have Jake do that.Thanks for your input.
Sorry about this. I'm the one that encouraged you to bore scope cylinder #6 because "it was the devil" and look... the devil** has showed up to dance with you in the pale moon light! Ugh... that sucks. But it's NOT the end of the world man. Jake has said that this is actually a "good failure" to have if caught soon enough. Why not plan to reconstruct the motor and up it a 3.8 or better? The man to handle this is just two counties over from me up in Cleveland!
Not on you my friend. I've been in denial for some time now. If only I had changed the guns when I first bought the car in 2014. Little did I know at that time. Oh well. 3.8 hhhmmm sounds interesting. I would toss this car, but I like it and it is only 1 of 728 C4S produced as a 2005, so a little rare for a 996. Need to seriously consider the options and make a few calls. At least I'll have the Ricer within a couple of months to get my performance fix occasionally. :D...and from one of my favs:

**
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game

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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by b3freak » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:20 am

32wildbilly wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:39 pm
b3freak wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:55 pm


Sorry about this. I'm the one that encouraged you to bore scope cylinder #6 because "it was the devil" and look... the devil** has showed up to dance with you in the pale moon light! Ugh... that sucks. But it's NOT the end of the world man. Jake has said that this is actually a "good failure" to have if caught soon enough. Why not plan to reconstruct the motor and up it a 3.8 or better? The man to handle this is just two counties over from me up in Cleveland!
Not on you my friend. I've been in denial for some time now. If only I had changed the guns when I first bought the car in 2014. Little did I know at that time. Oh well. 3.8 hhhmmm sounds interesting. I would toss this car, but I like it and it is only 1 of 728 C4S produced as a 2005, so a little rare for a 996. Need to seriously consider the options and make a few calls. At least I'll have the Ricer within a couple of months to get my performance fix occasionally. :D...and from one of my favs:

**
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
Well, you know there is only one person I'd send my car to that has a problem of this severity. Of course, he'd require a fully reconstruct of the motor from ground up, but then you'd have a car that would out last us both! We all know his expertise and workmanship doesn't come cheap. But what's strange is that the bore scoring in your image looks like the C4S in the bore scoring video he posted a few months ago. He says that bore scoring is going to be the next big problem with these motors. I guess that means by now, most people know what they need to do about the IMS bearing issue. Interesting that fuel leak down from bad injectors is one of the contributors to the problem.

While Raby is temporarily active on RL at the moment, why not post this story over there to get his pro input? Couldn't hurt. Maybe there are some other options.

Dude, I'm so sorry. You think your 996 is pissed because you went out and bought a ricer? :D I know, bad time for lame jokes.
2002 Porsche 996 Carrera - bare bones basic, but still a blast to drive! Heck, I don't even have PSM on it. Ha!

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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by TheDeckMan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:31 am

Crap that really sucks, I would be in the camp of pulling it out and R&R'ng it prior to it destroying other components requiring sourcing lots of other parts/case.
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by 32wildbilly » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:31 am

b3freak wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:20 am

Well, you know there is only one person I'd send my car to that has a problem of this severity. Of course, he'd require a fully reconstruct of the motor from ground up, but then you'd have a car that would out last us both! We all know his expertise and workmanship doesn't come cheap. But what's strange is that the bore scoring in your image looks like the C4S in the bore scoring video he posted a few months ago. He says that bore scoring is going to be the next big problem with these motors. I guess that means by now, most people know what they need to do about the IMS bearing issue. Interesting that fuel leak down from bad injectors is one of the contributors to the problem.

While Raby is temporarily active on RL at the moment, why not post this story over there to get his pro input? Couldn't hurt. Maybe there are some other options.

Dude, I'm so sorry. You think your 996 is pissed because you went out and bought a ricer? :D I know, bad time for lame jokes.
Yeah, I know who to call and it ain't Ghost Busters! I am not pissed, disappointed but not pissed. Stuff happens and I am fortunate to be able to afford the proper repairs considering I'm an old retired guy on Railroad Retirement! :( Bad/lame jokes are always welcome! :lol: The part I am not looking forward to is trying to explain this to the wife, however, she knows my Peter Pan tendencies can get expensive! After all she lived through my sprint car days. :shock:

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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...

Post by b3freak » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:39 am

32wildbilly wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:31 am
b3freak wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:20 am

Well, you know there is only one person I'd send my car to that has a problem of this severity. Of course, he'd require a fully reconstruct of the motor from ground up, but then you'd have a car that would out last us both! We all know his expertise and workmanship doesn't come cheap. But what's strange is that the bore scoring in your image looks like the C4S in the bore scoring video he posted a few months ago. He says that bore scoring is going to be the next big problem with these motors. I guess that means by now, most people know what they need to do about the IMS bearing issue. Interesting that fuel leak down from bad injectors is one of the contributors to the problem.

While Raby is temporarily active on RL at the moment, why not post this story over there to get his pro input? Couldn't hurt. Maybe there are some other options.

Dude, I'm so sorry. You think your 996 is pissed because you went out and bought a ricer? :D I know, bad time for lame jokes.
Yeah, I know who to call and it ain't Ghost Busters! I am not pissed, disappointed but not pissed. Stuff happens and I am fortunate to be able to afford the proper repairs considering I'm an old retired guy on Railroad Retirement! :( Bad/lame jokes are always welcome! :lol: The part I am not looking forward to is trying to explain this to the wife, however, she knows my Peter Pan tendencies can get expensive! After all she lived through my sprint car days. :shock:
Man, I'm not sure what I'd tell you to do in the mean time. I would imagine not driving the car would be worse than actually burning off the fuel. I think I remember Raby saying it's a good idea to run two cans of Seafoam on a low tank of Top Tier gasoline in order burn off some of the carbon that cakes up around the edges of the piston crown? Maybe he has some other ideas while you decide how to proceed.
2002 Porsche 996 Carrera - bare bones basic, but still a blast to drive! Heck, I don't even have PSM on it. Ha!

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