That is interesting #6 piston crown looks like you could eat off of it. My guess is the leaking fuel is keeping it clean. Indi didn't send me #5 crown pic but said #6 is much cleaner. I am having the Indi proceed with the injector-plugs-coil change anyway to prevent further fuel leakage, if that is the problem.b3freak wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:39 amMan, I'm not sure what I'd tell you to do in the mean time. I would imagine not driving the car would be worse than actually burning off the fuel. I think I remember Raby saying it's a good idea to run two cans of Seafoam on a low tank of Top Tier gasoline in order burn off some of the carbon that cakes up around the edges of the piston crown? Maybe he has some other ideas while you decide how to proceed.32wildbilly wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:31 am
Yeah, I know who to call and it ain't Ghost Busters! I am not pissed, disappointed but not pissed. Stuff happens and I am fortunate to be able to afford the proper repairs considering I'm an old retired guy on Railroad Retirement! Bad/lame jokes are always welcome! The part I am not looking forward to is trying to explain this to the wife, however, she knows my Peter Pan tendencies can get expensive! After all she lived through my sprint car days.
Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
Never gonna make you cry...
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
32wildbilly wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:54 amThat is interesting #6 piston crown looks like you could eat off of it. My guess is the leaking fuel is keeping it clean. Indi didn't send me #5 crown pic but said #6 is much cleaner. I am having the Indi proceed with the injector-plugs-coil change anyway to prevent further fuel leakage, if that is the problem.b3freak wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:39 am
Man, I'm not sure what I'd tell you to do in the mean time. I would imagine not driving the car would be worse than actually burning off the fuel. I think I remember Raby saying it's a good idea to run two cans of Seafoam on a low tank of Top Tier gasoline in order burn off some of the carbon that cakes up around the edges of the piston crown? Maybe he has some other ideas while you decide how to proceed.
That can't hurt, but your next problem (as you probably know) is the skirt coating will start to flake off and then that metal will circulate throughout the motor. You really need to check your oil filter for iron.
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
As I understand it the skirt coating contamination, lack of oil and flaking is what causes the scoring so that is probably in process. I have done my last several oil and filter changes and filter has been spotless. Magnetic plug also shows very little stuff, no chunks or growths. Seriously the piston/ cylinder design seems to be wonky in my uneducated opinion.b3freak wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:57 am32wildbilly wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:54 am
That is interesting #6 piston crown looks like you could eat off of it. My guess is the leaking fuel is keeping it clean. Indi didn't send me #5 crown pic but said #6 is much cleaner. I am having the Indi proceed with the injector-plugs-coil change anyway to prevent further fuel leakage, if that is the problem.
That can't hurt, but your next problem (as you probably know) is the skirt coating will start to flake off and then that metal will circulate throughout the motor. You really need to check your oil filter for iron.
Never gonna make you cry...
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
Just make sure you're wearing clean underwear while out in it. You just never know! Mama would be proud.32wildbilly wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:11 amAs I understand it the skirt coating contamination, lack of oil and flaking is what causes the scoring so that is probably in process. I have done my last several oil and filter changes and filter has been spotless. Magnetic plug also shows very little stuff, no chunks or growths. Seriously the piston/ cylinder design seems to be wonky in my uneducated opinion.
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
The fuel will keep the crown clean at early stages of failure only. After the cylinder/ ring seal is compromised the combustion chamber contamination from the crankcase will make the piston get dirty, and caked with soot very quickly. Having excess oil in the cylinders promotes LSPI, which can actually give the engine a brief period of higher performance, as it effects the combustion process, and power output. This is why "engines run fine" even while experiencing this mode of failure.32wildbilly wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:54 amThat is interesting #6 piston crown looks like you could eat off of it. My guess is the leaking fuel is keeping it clean. Indi didn't send me #5 crown pic but said #6 is much cleaner. I am having the Indi proceed with the injector-plugs-coil change anyway to prevent further fuel leakage, if that is the problem.b3freak wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:39 am
Man, I'm not sure what I'd tell you to do in the mean time. I would imagine not driving the car would be worse than actually burning off the fuel. I think I remember Raby saying it's a good idea to run two cans of Seafoam on a low tank of Top Tier gasoline in order burn off some of the carbon that cakes up around the edges of the piston crown? Maybe he has some other ideas while you decide how to proceed.
With the car being a 2005 C4S why stop at 3.8L? With the F6 program a "Stage 1 plus" is virtually the same money, but has much more to offer @4.0L.
All that stuff is required for a positive end result. One goof for the wrong installer, and the engine is compromised. You have to respect the people that want the work to be done correctly.I reviewed RND. Downside is then your Indi has to put it together and do all kinds of initial startup and preliminary break-in. I'm thinking I would rather have Jake do that.
Best of luck!
Jake Raby
www.flat6innovations.com
www.flat6innovations.com
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
Holy crap... this guy just put us on the straight and narrow Wildbilly! ((bowing)) Definitely knows his better than most! RennMeister, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is...Renn Meister wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:15 amThe fuel will keep the crown clean at early stages of failure only. After the cylinder/ ring seal is compromised the combustion chamber contamination from the crankcase will make the piston get dirty, and caked with soot very quickly. Having excess oil in the cylinders promotes LSPI, which can actually give the engine a brief period of higher performance, as it effects the combustion process, and power output. This is why "engines run fine" even while experiencing this mode of failure.32wildbilly wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:54 am
That is interesting #6 piston crown looks like you could eat off of it. My guess is the leaking fuel is keeping it clean. Indi didn't send me #5 crown pic but said #6 is much cleaner. I am having the Indi proceed with the injector-plugs-coil change anyway to prevent further fuel leakage, if that is the problem.
With the car being a 2005 C4S why stop at 3.8L? With the F6 program a "Stage 1 plus" is virtually the same money, but has much more to offer @4.0L.
All that stuff is required for a positive end result. One goof for the wrong installer, and the engine is compromised. You have to respect the people that want the work to be done correctly.I reviewed RND. Downside is then your Indi has to put it together and do all kinds of initial startup and preliminary break-in. I'm thinking I would rather have Jake do that.
Best of luck!
What is the best advise for Bill and his 996 in the meantime? Should he park it? Drive it... what do you recommend. Of course, I would recommend getting it to Flat6 immediately, but is there anything he can do to protect the car in the meantime?
btw - And, welcome to the Outpost Renn Meister!
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
Thanks. You sound knowledgeable!? I understand the RND requirements and trust my Indi but I trust Flat6 more on the whole process. Appreciate your comments on the stage 1 and 4.0.Renn Meister wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:15 am
The fuel will keep the crown clean at early stages of failure only. After the cylinder/ ring seal is compromised the combustion chamber contamination from the crankcase will make the piston get dirty, and caked with soot very quickly. Having excess oil in the cylinders promotes LSPI, which can actually give the engine a brief period of higher performance, as it effects the combustion process, and power output. This is why "engines run fine" even while experiencing this mode of failure.
With the car being a 2005 C4S why stop at 3.8L? With the F6 program a "Stage 1 plus" is virtually the same money, but has much more to offer @4.0L.
All that stuff is required for a positive end result. One goof for the wrong installer, and the engine is compromised. You have to respect the people that want the work to be done correctly.
Best of luck!
Never gonna make you cry...
Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
Just jumping in here to say that Renn Meister is a confirmed expert and we are very lucky to have him here.
Sincerely,
Someone with moderator powers
Sincerely,
Someone with moderator powers
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
Really sorry to hear about the scoring Billy! I've contemplated my contingency plan for an engine failure, and to be honest I still don't know 100% what I would do. I think I would rebuild the engine myself. It would still be expensive, but it would be a huge opportunity to learn something new. I've chatted with Bisimoto several times about his twin turbo build, and he's done nothing but flog that thing in the desert. It's very refreshing since I had only gotten M96 rebuild info from Rennlist prior to that. (Basically all you've got is that sketchy Polish dude, Raby, and a short block) Just know you probably have more options than you realize.
The leaking injector issue is something that is preventable. I think a fuel pressure leak down test is something DIY'ers should look up how to do on YouTube. Snap On has a new digital pressure tester; it's awesome. You can use it to check cylinders, fuel systems, etc. I'm talking to my dealer if it will also replace manometers for checking AOS's. Cost is roughly $500, but when you consider the price of a decent manometer and fuel pressure tester; it's a no brainier.
The leaking injector issue is something that is preventable. I think a fuel pressure leak down test is something DIY'ers should look up how to do on YouTube. Snap On has a new digital pressure tester; it's awesome. You can use it to check cylinders, fuel systems, etc. I'm talking to my dealer if it will also replace manometers for checking AOS's. Cost is roughly $500, but when you consider the price of a decent manometer and fuel pressure tester; it's a no brainier.
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Re: Bore Scoring! Who knows for whom the bell tolls...
Plus RND, Vertex and others...sweet victory wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:59 am Really sorry to hear about the scoring Billy! I've contemplated my contingency plan for an engine failure, and to be honest I still don't know 100% what I would do. I think I would rebuild the engine myself. It would still be expensive, but it would be a huge opportunity to learn something new. I've chatted with Bisimoto several times about his twin turbo build, and he's done nothing but flog that thing in the desert. It's very refreshing since I had only gotten M96 rebuild info from Rennlist prior to that. (Basically all you've got is that sketchy Polish dude, Raby, and a short block) Just know you probably have more options than you realize.
The leaking injector issue is something that is preventable. I think a fuel pressure leak down test is something DIY'ers should look up how to do on YouTube. Snap On has a new digital pressure tester; it's awesome. You can use it to check cylinders, fuel systems, etc. I'm talking to my dealer if it will also replace manometers for checking AOS's. Cost is roughly $500, but when you consider the price of a decent manometer and fuel pressure tester; it's a no brainier.
Never gonna make you cry...