From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

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32wildbilly
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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by 32wildbilly » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:15 pm

5chn3ll wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:05 pm Me being far too cheap to ever do this myself is in no way going to prevent me from enjoying this thread vicariously.
Seen his crap before. Drops in makes an inflammatory statement. Opinions are like assholes everybody got one.

I think that is very troll-like.

Bet his car sounds like a whole basket full of stuck lifters! :shock:
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Groovzilla
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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by Groovzilla » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:18 am

Bore Score and 2.5 years ago, there was a friends 997 C4S that underwent BS scoping/etc and it was determined his poor engine was suffering from scored cylinder walls. Engine now rebuilt $20K later :oops:

Car grew up in Minnesota and lived dormant in sub 10 degree temps for 12 long winters. These cold temps are a very common denominator on most of the Bore Scored engines. The cold starts are a killer.

Of course this most likely isn't the only reason for BS but it is surely one of the most common. And of course we all have to remember the % of BS engines is quite low and not as much fun to rant and rage about like the IMS discussions :lol:

Lesson learned: Buy 996 or 997 that has lived in hot climate. My 2007 997S was born and raised in Palm Beach Florida and I purposely searched for one in either Southern Calif or FL. At 54K miles it doesn't burn a drop of oil between oil changes(3000 mi).
2005 997 S - Atlas grey w/Full black leather

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32wildbilly
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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by 32wildbilly » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:39 am

Groovzilla wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:18 am Bore Score and 2.5 years ago, there was a friends 997 C4S that underwent BS scoping/etc and it was determined his poor engine was suffering from scored cylinder walls. Engine now rebuilt $20K later :oops:

Car grew up in Minnesota and lived dormant in sub 10 degree temps for 12 long winters. These cold temps are a very common denominator on most of the Bore Scored engines. The cold starts are a killer.

Of course this most likely isn't the only reason for BS but it is surely one of the most common. And of course we all have to remember the % of BS engines is quite low and not as much fun to rant and rage about like the IMS discussions :lol:

Lesson learned: Buy 996 or 997 that has lived in hot climate. My 2007 997S was born and raised in Palm Beach Florida and I purposely searched for one in either Southern Calif or FL. At 54K miles it doesn't burn a drop of oil between oil changes(3000 mi).
Mine spent the first 9 years of it's life in Houston! No cold there. When I got it in 2015 it spent the winters in the garage and never started below 40f. Extreme cold has been considered an issue, but other items have now been id'd too.
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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by OceanBlue2000 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:11 pm

32wildbilly wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:39 am
Groovzilla wrote: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:18 am Bore Score and 2.5 years ago, there was a friends 997 C4S that underwent BS scoping/etc and it was determined his poor engine was suffering from scored cylinder walls. Engine now rebuilt $20K later :oops:

Car grew up in Minnesota and lived dormant in sub 10 degree temps for 12 long winters. These cold temps are a very common denominator on most of the Bore Scored engines. The cold starts are a killer.

Of course this most likely isn't the only reason for BS but it is surely one of the most common. And of course we all have to remember the % of BS engines is quite low and not as much fun to rant and rage about like the IMS discussions :lol:

Lesson learned: Buy 996 or 997 that has lived in hot climate. My 2007 997S was born and raised in Palm Beach Florida and I purposely searched for one in either Southern Calif or FL. At 54K miles it doesn't burn a drop of oil between oil changes(3000 mi).
Mine spent the first 9 years of it's life in Houston! No cold there. When I got it in 2015 it spent the winters in the garage and never started below 40f. Extreme cold has been considered an issue, but other items have now been id'd too.

There was a paper that Hartech (engine builder in the UK) put out that essentially blamed the larger bore sizes of teh 996.2 engine. Larger bore sized without a larger engine decreases the cooling and oil capabilities of the engine. At least that's what I remember, and it's Friday so I don't feel like finding it. It makes sense to me, in that I seem to see more 996.2s with this problem, although Jake says it can happen to any car, so what do I know.
Mike
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Groovzilla
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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by Groovzilla » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:40 pm

i believe jake weighed heavy on the cold climate issue
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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by B3DAWG » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:03 am

Of course, it's no surprise now, I'm the lead producer for the bore scoring series. I guess that makes me the pusher of hype? :D

Actually, I'd rather look at it like this... getting to hang out with Raby makes me feel like a righteous dude! :lol:
dudes.jpg
dudes.jpg (10.93 KiB) Viewed 2772 times
Seriously, anytime someone like Raby puts out information on topics like IMS bearing failure or cylinder bore scoring, people are going to lump him into the "opportunist" basket. However, even before the Rennvision YouTube channel and the bore scoring series, Flat 6 Innovations was seeing 80%+ of it's work associated with this problem. Jake even said bore scoring is the oldest of all modes of failure with M96/M97 engines. It is an accumulation of variables that lead up to the problem, but if I was to say what is the biggest variable in the equation, it would be the Lokasil bore coating. The piston offset and forged pistons are a close second. Remember, 986 Boxsters with cast pistons don't have the bore scoring problem like in the 996 and 997.

One of the biggest things that amazes me about Jake Raby is that he limits Flat 6 Innovations to about 35 cars per year. There is no doubt in my mind from talking to people that work for him that he could easily make it a "mega shop". You know the ones, right? Those shops that flush cars in and out all day long, but lose attention to detail and care less about the person that owns the car? But he's a Marine and lives by the expression, "The FEW, the PROUD" philosophy or in order words, quality OVER quantity. I think a lot of people think that Jake only does Flat 6 Innovations, but you must remember he runs another shop dedicated to aircooled engines called "Raby's Aircooled Technologies". You add the time he spends producing content associated with classes for The Knowledge Gruppe and Rennvision, writing for the Vintage Volkswagon Club and PCA/Panorama, and doing R&D for companies like Driven Racing Oil, I don't see how he even has time to sleep or spend with his family, but somehow he still finds time to do it. I think part of it is that he married a lady that loves these cars as much as he does. And, he daughter Ava too! On their spare time, Ava and Jake are rebuilding a vintage military helicopter down in Atlanta.

On a side note, Jake and I spent this week finishing up filming for the M9X rebuild video series. I have over 92 hours of raw footage to edit before the holidays. Our goal is to have this ready by Black Friday. If you love to see all the ins and out of what makes up these Porsche engines from 1997 until 2008, you need to put this one on your Christmas list. Jake walks you through rebuilding a M9X engine step-by-step. Even if you don't plan to rebuild a Porsche M96/M97 engine, having this resource helps you better understand what goes into these things.

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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by 808Bill » Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:08 am

The funny thing is, not to long ago you really PO JR :lol:..Glad to see the relationship blossom!
Great job on recording all of this, and thank you JR for sharing your knowledge.
FSI-R40

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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by B3DAWG » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:55 pm

808Bill wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:08 am The funny thing is, not to long ago you really PO JR :lol:..Glad to see the relationship blossom!
Great job on recording all of this, and thank you JR for sharing your knowledge.
How could I forget! :) He didn't take criticism of the PCA video productions too well at first, but later agreed I had some valid points about the poor audio quality. Well, his first impression of me as "b3freak" wasn't that great, but I guess that changed because he finally met me in person and realized I wasn't such a douche bag after all and had some talents that he could use in light of the new found popularity of the IMS bearing videos. The rest is history.

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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by 808Bill » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:05 pm

b3freak wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:55 pm
808Bill wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:08 am The funny thing is, not to long ago you really PO JR :lol:..Glad to see the relationship blossom!
Great job on recording all of this, and thank you JR for sharing your knowledge.
How could I forget! :) He didn't take criticism of the PCA video productions too well at first, but later agreed I had some valid points about the poor audio quality. Well, his first impression of me as "b3freak" wasn't that great, but I guess that changed because he finally met me in person and realized I wasn't such a douche bag after all and had some talents that he could use in light of the new found popularity of the IMS bearing videos. The rest is history.
Nice work bud, I'm glad you and Jake got together on this.
FSI-R40

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32wildbilly
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Re: From Bore Scoring to Health Courtesy Flat6 Innovations

Post by 32wildbilly » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:11 am

I need to vent...You know I really thought I wouldn't have any problems with my P-car gone to get a rebuilt engine. Especially with my new ricermobile. I was wrong...

I know...I know... good things come to those who wait, but...I guess I am terrible at waiting.
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