All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

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FRUNKenstein
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All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by FRUNKenstein » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:06 am

So, the HTR ZIII tires that the prior owner of my car had put on the car right before I bought it 4 years ago are about shot. Well, at least the rears. The fronts have about half the tread left. I'll star another thread on available summer replacement tires, but want to discuss All Season and Winter tire options here.

I drive my car through the winter, albeit only in dry weather, unless I get caught by surprise. In the past 4 winters, I'd basically take the car out about once a week and just drive really carefully - no "spirited driving". Basically, drive it to Saturday morning PCA breakfast and maybe cars and coffee. So, even though it might be below freezing, I figured driving very deliberately was OK. As I was reading up on replacement tires, however, I saw warnings that said driving a summer tire during cold weather was bad not only for the lack of traction, but also that flexing the tires in cold weather actually damages the tire. Hmm, learn something new every day.

I'd like to keep my routine of driving through the winter - I think that's better for the car than just letting it sit for 4 months straight. But, to do that, I'll need tires built for cold weather. Since I don't plan to drive in the snow, and we really don't get much snow in KC anyway, All Season tires are probably the way to go. The main compromise would be a minor loss of grip/handling over the summer tires (but much better of the same in the cold weather), and I will have to go to a non-Porsche recommended size, which is narrower (hence not as cool looking). On my previous 996, a '99 C4, I ran All Seasons year round and they were plenty good enough for my driving skills and non-track events. For the 996TT, I would just buy a set of All Seasons for winter use and mount them on my current wheels (18"x8" front, 18"x10" rears). Then, next spring, I'd buy a new set of wheels and summer tires. I've been thinking about getting a new set of wheels anyway.

After doing a bit of research, I don't see any winter or All Season tires in the OEM Porsche recommended sizes (225/40-18 fronts and 295/30-18 rears). They are available for the fronts, it's the rear tires that are the problem. There are no winter or All Season tires in 295/30-18.

On searching the tire sites and the other forums, I see 2 sets of recommendations for sizes for winter or All Season tires. For 8" wide front wheels and 10" wide rear wheels (like my car), the recommendations are for 225/40-18 fronts and 265/35-18 rears (supposedly the Porsche recommendation for snow tires, but I'm too lazy to verify that). For wider fronts and rears (8.5" front and 10.5" or 11" rears), then go to 235/40-18 and 275/35-18. I think you can use the 235/275 combo on the 8" and 10" wheels, but you'll need the 275 width in the rears for the 11" wheels as the 265 just gets stretched too much. To clarify, this is the advice I've seen after doing a couple of hours of research - I don't have personal experience.

Supposedly, the 235/275 combo offers more selection as well. When searching for the tires I'm most interested in, they come in either size, though. The top two choices for me are the General GMax AS-05 and the Yokohama Advan Sport AS. On the 225/265 combo, the Generals are $570 for the set on Tirerack.com, and the Yokohamas are $644. However, my local Discounttire.com retailer will sell me the Yokohamas for $566 for the set. Bumping up to the 235/40-18 and 275/35-18, the Yokohamas are $662 for the set on Discounttire.com, but the Generals aren't available on either Tirerack or Discounttire in the 275/35-18 size.

I haven't decided for sure what I'm doing, but interested in thoughts of the rest of you.
www.kansascityautomuseum.com
Current:
2002 996TT X50, Guards Red
1987 928S4, Guards Red
1987 951, Guards Red
1973 914 2.0 Bahia Red

2006 955S, Lapis Blue
Other toys:
1988 BMW 325i Cabriolet, Alpin Weiss
1987 Bertone X1/9, Verde Chiaro
Gone but not forgotten: 1975 914 2.0, Laguna Blue; 1999 996 C4 Aerokit Black; 1990 964 C2 Guards Red; 2006 955S Arctic Silver

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Water Hound
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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by Water Hound » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:20 pm

Have Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3+ on the cabriolet and love them for all winter driving. We head to SoCal from Vancouver just after Christmas every year and they're really excellent for this trip. Okay in light snow, great in rain, suck in slush (what doesn't?) but great on cold dry pavement. For your turbo I'd go with 235/40-18 front with 265/35-18 rears as the overall circumference match is good. Too bad they don't offer the rear in a 295 width or I'd run them on the C4S as well. As it is I have full snows for the wide body in the sizes I listed above. Snows are lousy for even moderate performance driving though. Adding correctly sized spacers to get the offset looking right helps a lot.
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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by autobonrun » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:37 am

My TTS came with Continental Contact DWS tires. On the front 225/40/18. On the rear 285/35/18. Supposedly Dry/Wet/Snow but I’ve never tried it in snow. Fine for cold dry conditions.

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FRUNKenstein
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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by FRUNKenstein » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:43 am

autobonrun wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:37 am My TTS came with Continental Contact DWS tires. On the front 225/40/18. On the rear 285/35/18. Supposedly Dry/Wet/Snow but I’ve never tried it in snow. Fine for cold dry conditions.
Thanks for the info, Water Hound and Gerald! I may get a set of new (well, probably used) wheels and summer tires this March. Then buy a set of cold weather tires & mount them on my current wheels next fall. For now, I'm going to nurse my current well-worn summer tires through the winter.

I'd like to get some silver wheels for the summer tires, maybe 11" rear width versus my current 10" rims. I like my current dark gray wheels, but would like to try something in silver also.
www.kansascityautomuseum.com
Current:
2002 996TT X50, Guards Red
1987 928S4, Guards Red
1987 951, Guards Red
1973 914 2.0 Bahia Red

2006 955S, Lapis Blue
Other toys:
1988 BMW 325i Cabriolet, Alpin Weiss
1987 Bertone X1/9, Verde Chiaro
Gone but not forgotten: 1975 914 2.0, Laguna Blue; 1999 996 C4 Aerokit Black; 1990 964 C2 Guards Red; 2006 955S Arctic Silver

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FRUNKenstein
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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by FRUNKenstein » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:27 am

Time to revisit this topic. I've done quite a bit of research. Looked at expected usage. Called Discount Tire's national info line. I have come to the conclusion that an Ultra High Performance All Season tire is the best way for me to go for the winter. Here's why:
1. I'm never going to drive it on snow. If it is snowing, the 996TT will stay in the garage. We don't get that much snow here to begin with. I used to drive my '99 C4 when it snowed, but that was a $16,000 car with high mileage. The Turbro is a $50,000+ car. So, when it snows, it is going to stay inside. Therefore, the advantage that winter/snow tires offer regarding snow traction is meaningless.
2. Temperatures: on my way to Porsche breakfast on Saturdays, it could be as cold as 15 degrees Fahrenheit. That's as cold as I'll drive it. If it is single digits, I'll leave the 996TT in the garage. Even on the coldest of those days, by the time breakfast is over, it will probably be more like 20 to 25 degrees. And the rest of the day, temps will likely be above freezing. Yes, we do get some really frigid temps during the winter, but that is the exception, not the norm. It isn't unusual to have a 55 degree day in January or February. November & the first half of December aren't too bad. Those are the 4 months I'm concerned about. I'd probably switch back to summer rubber in early March. Winter tires offer a traction advantage over all-season tires beginning at 45 degrees Fahrenheit. At 35 degrees, it isn't that big of a difference. Below 20 degrees, yes, a marked difference. But, above 45 degrees, all-season tires offer a traction advantage. During November 1 through early March, I think I'd be doing at least as much, if not more, driving at 45 degrees than below. The entire point of a set of tires for the winter is damaging the summers by driving to breakfast when it's 15 or 20 degrees outside. I don't plan to drive like a madman on my way to breakfast when it's 15 degrees outside. Plus, the all-seasons should offer superior traction to the summer tires at those cold temps.
3. There are no winter tires that I found on either Tirerack.com or Discounttire.com that meet the load and speed ratings for the 996TT. For the record, the load rating is 92 on the fronts and 98 on the rears. Speed rating is Z or higher. I found 5 sets of tires in the 225/40-18 and 275/35-18 sizes that meet the load and speed ratings. There were no 265/35-18 tires that meet the load rating (98) for the 996TT rear tires.

I understand that there are many advocates of getting true winter/snow tires for the winter months. But, given the above factors, I'm going with ultra high performance all-season tires.

The options (all in 225/40-18 & 275/35-18, 92 or higher front and 99 rear load rating, all speed rated at Y):
(all prices quoted are Discounttire.com, which was either the same or cheaper and is the final price after instant discount offers)

Milestar MS932XP+ $340 for the set.
Notes: Man, I like me the discount option ('cause I'm cheap). Sports the damned-by-faint-praise "Good" rating on Discounttire.com

Nitto Motivo $572 for the set (after a $50 instant savings special)
Notes: Rated as "Better" by Discounttire.com.

Toyo Proxes Sport A/S $640 for the set
Notes: Nice looking tire. I have Toyo Proxes on my 928S4 and like them. Classified as "Better" rating by Discounttire.com

BF Goodrich G Force Comp2 A/S $676 for the set
Notes: Also classified as "Better" rating on Discounttire.com

Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 $700 for the set (after a $100 instant savings special)
Notes: Classified as "Best" rating by Discounttire.com

For me, I start by knocking out the Toyo and BF Goodrich. For the price differential ($60 or $24), the Michelins are a better call, based on reputation and the Discounttire.com rating of "Best" versus "Better."

That leaves the Michelins, the Nittos and the Milestars.

Welp, $340 for the set on those Milestars. Check reviews: Amazon users give them a 4.2 out of 5 rating. One reviewer says "I'm never buying Michelin again". Most negative comments are about them not lasting for the full 40,000 mile rating, whereas I would put about 6,000 miles on them before they aged out. Hmm, hmm, hmm.

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curious.gif (1.7 MiB) Viewed 3054 times

The Nittos at $572 mark the midpoint. Not el cheapo, but still a significant discount from the Michelins. They get very good reviews (4.6 out of 5 stars on Google).

The Michelins are the gold standard. I bought a set of Michelins for the 914 a couple of months ago. Normally I don't like to spend a lot on tires, but the Michelins for the 914 weren't that much more expensive than the rest. I'm pleased with that set. In this situation, they are more than twice the price of the el cheapos, but really not that much more than the others. $128 more than the Nittos - not a big deal on a set of 4 tires, frankly. Here's what Discounttire.com says about them in their review:
Get to know the newest member of the family, the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4, which brings all-season reliability to the top-notch performance of the Michelin Pilot Sport. Depending on where you live, you might feel certain seasons or weather would preclude you from taking your supercar out of the garage. A set of All Season 4 tires could change how you think.

Michelin track-tested this tire against several top competitors’ all-season performance models and their tread life came out on top by as much as 29%. And when it comes to weather, it is designed for traction and grip when the weather is wet or dry and the temperatures are at their extremes. These might not be as fun as the solely performance-oriented models we dig into below, but they are definitely the most versatile.

Under Michelin’s “Total Performance” ethos, they’ve truly balanced this tire for long-lasting, excited driving in all seasons. It’s no wonder Chevy has chosen it as the first all-season tire for the Corvette."
Bottom line, damn I'm tempted to buy the Milestars just to see how well they do. But, for the price differential, the Michelins just make the most sense. If it was over $1,000 for the set of Michelins, then I'd give the Milestars a try, or more consideration to the Nitto. But, if I can get a set of quality Michelins for $700 (due to the current $100 instant credit special), I think that makes it an easy call. Boring. Safe. But easy.
www.kansascityautomuseum.com
Current:
2002 996TT X50, Guards Red
1987 928S4, Guards Red
1987 951, Guards Red
1973 914 2.0 Bahia Red

2006 955S, Lapis Blue
Other toys:
1988 BMW 325i Cabriolet, Alpin Weiss
1987 Bertone X1/9, Verde Chiaro
Gone but not forgotten: 1975 914 2.0, Laguna Blue; 1999 996 C4 Aerokit Black; 1990 964 C2 Guards Red; 2006 955S Arctic Silver

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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by theprf » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:45 pm

Did you check the revs/mile spec for the 225/40-18 and 275/35-18 to make sure the fronts are taller than the rears to keep the viscous coupling happy? I think these are the other way round, which has been reported to cause all manner of odd problems.

I think you mentioned you had new winter wheels - what did you end up with? The front "winter" rims are the same as the regular 18x8 ET50, the rear "winter" rims are a little narrower and different offset 18x11 ET45 for "summer", 18x10 ET47 for "winter".

I haven't been able to find an 18x10 ET47, I did find 18x10 ET65. I don't know how the ET's add up - would an 18mm spacer make an ET65 into an ET47? Of would it make an ET65 into an ET83?

I also could not find any tires in 265/35-18 when I looked.

I have had good results with most Nitto tires, those would be my choice.

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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by gnat » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:04 pm

I'll be the voice of insanity. Don't bother changing tires at all given your planned limits on when it will come out of the garage. Just remember not to act like an idiot until the tires have warmed up.

Never put anything other than PS2s on the C4 and have driven it in all weather conditions up to 4" of snow (where the aero front end starts to act as a snow plow) and it's done fine.

Caveats:

1) My experience is with significantly less power than the TT has to offer.

2) You have to be gentle until they have warmed up enough to really work. Extra braking room. Don't punch it. Be sensible on corners. By the time I get out of my neighborhood I find them warmed up enough that I can stop being hyper vigilant and by the time I get to the highway they are good for my typical nature.

3) Even once warm, your grip will still be less than a warm summer day so treat it accordingly.

Basically drive like a considerate person on the road and you should be OK in the described conditions.

You are clearly taking a risk with that approach, but 20 years of winters says that it's not as big of a risk as some say about summer tires in the winter (and yes I have had to take emergency action and they did fine).

That said I will be swapping the P!g's summer wheels/tires for it's original wheels with snow tires. It will be going further and get used more often though.

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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by Dr_Strangelove » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:55 pm

gnat wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:04 pm I'll be the voice of insanity.

Challenge accepted. Get these, and drive exclusively in the snow.

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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by gnat » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:10 pm

Dr_Strangelove (whew!) wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:55 pm
gnat wrote: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:04 pm I'll be the voice of insanity.

Challenge accepted. Get these, and drive exclusively in the snow.


studded-tires_h.jpg
No no no.

Those are what I use for the track!

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Re: All Season or Winter Tires for 996TT

Post by FRUNKenstein » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:48 pm

gnat-
That's exactly what I have been doing, and I agree that should work just fine. It has worked fine for the past 5 years. But, since I have the extra set of wheels (8 & 10 inch widths), plus the space to store them, I think it makes sense to invest in a set of cold weather tires. From time to time, I do run it up well over 100 mph (parade laps or a deserted 4 lane in the middle of Nowhere, Kansas). I worry that a cold-damaged summer tire might blow out at high speed. And given that a set of top-shelf all-season tires is only $700, I think it's money well spent.

Professor -
I didn't check the actual dimensions, but Porsche recommends either 265/35 or 275/35 for the rears to go along with 225/40, so I figured they will be fine. The 275 should be closer to the OE circumference (295) than the 265. But, I will double check anyway as I don't want to thrash the viscous coupling.
www.kansascityautomuseum.com
Current:
2002 996TT X50, Guards Red
1987 928S4, Guards Red
1987 951, Guards Red
1973 914 2.0 Bahia Red

2006 955S, Lapis Blue
Other toys:
1988 BMW 325i Cabriolet, Alpin Weiss
1987 Bertone X1/9, Verde Chiaro
Gone but not forgotten: 1975 914 2.0, Laguna Blue; 1999 996 C4 Aerokit Black; 1990 964 C2 Guards Red; 2006 955S Arctic Silver

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