Guards Red didn't save this buyer on the way in his 996

[OceanBlue2000]

Seems like Jake decided to give ol deezy a little more hardship.

Yeah, that thing had to be ticking or at least eating some oil. Let the buyer beware, yadda yadda but I doubt he represented it as it was especially to someone who doesn't seem like he knows these cars. Man, 41K with obvious suspension issues!

[gnat]

People are upset with Deezy about the tires? Really?

Seems crappy to sell a car for that much with those tires, but that is clearly something the buyer should have seen if they even minimally checked it for safety before jumping on a cross country drive.

I don't even fault him for the bent link either. It looks terrible in the pic, but the question is how it actually impacted the ride. Given the stance modifications I could see any impact in handling being attributed to the stance. Hell I just had to replace a good chunk of the suspension for one wheel in the BMW after I had it checked because it sometimes felt weird under braking. Had a bent rod, cracked arm, a bushing was shot, and the strut was leaking, but it felt fine other than "random" odd brake feel.

Even the bore scoring is questionable. People are asking about the ticking and oil consumption that Deezy must have been seeing, but we've seen cases where scoring similar to what was shown causes consumption that is still within the wide range that people accept as "normal" on these cars and there have also been cases where people reported no ticking before finding the scoring.

The exhaust lifter looks bad, but Jake offered no context around it. Does he think that happened some time before the buyer took ownership of the car? If so, I'd be curious to know how he reached that conclusion (not because I doubt him, debugging (software) failures is my job and passion).

I have no dog in this race. While I view Deezy as an ass, I still haven't seen signs of clear malicious intent here.

[32wildbilly]

The one internal pic that Jake posted was...well as Dr. S's Spanky gif said "Oh Boy!"

[32wildbilly]

Here's my experience on internal engine problems:

Purchased my car in 2014 from a private party.I knew nothing about Porsches. The engine was not making any ticking/knocking noises. The owner said it used some oil. I researched that and it did not seem unusual. I had a PPI performed by a guy who has been working on European cars for over 20 years. He found some stuff but nothing serious. As I knew nothing about the M96 engine I did not have the insides of the engine checked out. 3 1/2 years later the engine was ticking heavily and oil consumption had gone way up. I was lucky the engine did not go boom on me. I think most know the rest of the story.

Today if I would buy another Porsche I would pay the money for an invasive PPI as per Jake's recommendations. Will that catch everything? Maybe not, but it should catch the obvious. Can stuff go bad down the road and consume the engine? Of course. Shit happens.

This red car had several previous internal engine repairs and my guess is that might have been a contributing factor in this failure. It would be nice to hear the rest of the story, but that is up to the current owner.

[32wildbilly]

The exhaust lifter looks bad, but Jake offered no context around it. Does he think that happened some time before the buyer took ownership of the car? If so, I'd be curious to know how he reached that conclusion (not because I doubt him, debugging (software) failures is my job and passion).

I have no dog in this race. While I view Deezy as an ass, I still haven't seen signs of clear malicious intent here.

Yeah where that lifter was residing that did not occur before the BOOM! My questions are why did it end up there and was it sent there by something else.

Keep in mind that a significant amount of important stuff has to be knocked out of the way to free an exhaust lifter from it's assigned location.

[OceanBlue2000]

People are upset with Deezy about the tires? Really?

Seems crappy to sell a car for that much with those tires, but that is clearly something the buyer should have seen if they even minimally checked it for safety before jumping on a cross country drive.

I don't even fault him for the bent link either. It looks terrible in the pic, but the question is how it actually impacted the ride. Given the stance modifications I could see any impact in handling being attributed to the stance. Hell I just had to replace a good chunk of the suspension for one wheel in the BMW after I had it checked because it sometimes felt weird under braking. Had a bent rod, cracked arm, a bushing was shot, and the strut was leaking, but it felt fine other than "random" odd brake feel.

Even the bore scoring is questionable. People are asking about the ticking and oil consumption that Deezy must have been seeing, but we've seen cases where scoring similar to what was shown causes consumption that is still within the wide range that people accept as "normal" on these cars and there have also been cases where people reported no ticking before finding the scoring.

The exhaust lifter looks bad, but Jake offered no context around it. Does he think that happened some time before the buyer took ownership of the car? If so, I'd be curious to know how he reached that conclusion (not because I doubt him, debugging (software) failures is my job and passion).

I have no dog in this race. While I view Deezy as an ass, I still haven't seen signs of clear malicious intent here.

This thing sold for almost twice over market. I don't know what the reserve was, but for that money I'd expect tires that were not bald and to have had it aligned for goodness sake. You're right in that if I was the buyer I'd have walked away just based on that. If he can't be bothered to get the tires wearing correctly, what else hasn't he done?

Minimum this guy should have felt bad for selling a car at that price in this condition.

[B3DAWG]

People are upset with Deezy about the tires? Really?

Seems crappy to sell a car for that much with those tires, but that is clearly something the buyer should have seen if they even minimally checked it for safety before jumping on a cross country drive.

I don't even fault him for the bent link either. It looks terrible in the pic, but the question is how it actually impacted the ride. Given the stance modifications I could see any impact in handling being attributed to the stance. Hell I just had to replace a good chunk of the suspension for one wheel in the BMW after I had it checked because it sometimes felt weird under braking. Had a bent rod, cracked arm, a bushing was shot, and the strut was leaking, but it felt fine other than "random" odd brake feel.

Even the bore scoring is questionable. People are asking about the ticking and oil consumption that Deezy must have been seeing, but we've seen cases where scoring similar to what was shown causes consumption that is still within the wide range that people accept as "normal" on these cars and there have also been cases where people reported no ticking before finding the scoring.

The exhaust lifter looks bad, but Jake offered no context around it. Does he think that happened some time before the buyer took ownership of the car? If so, I'd be curious to know how he reached that conclusion (not because I doubt him, debugging (software) failures is my job and passion).

I have no dog in this race. While I view Deezy as an ass, I still haven't seen signs of clear malicious intent here.

My thoughts in hindsight...

Those Nitro tires were brand new and noted as newly installed in the auction.

He also clearly noted swapping out suspension parts and is pictured in the BaT auction.

IMHO, it looks like either something hit the control arm OR he tried to use the control arm as a jack point or rear support for jack stands. You can clearly see in the pictures where he used the front suspension for his jack stands.

The bent control arm negatively affected alignment and is why those tires wore quickly.

The problem is that in the auction, he promoted the car as running perfectly fine and "needing nothing" (see picture) ... along with a rebuilt engine and LN IMS Solution. He has gone on record in saying he wouldn't agree to taking one of his auction cars for a PPI, because he thinks it's a waste of time.

I'm not sure if Will requested a PPI and not.

This one stinks to high heaven. No buyer wants to drive off and break down three states later with catastrophic engine failure.

Screen Shot 2020-08-27 at 11.42.51 AM.png (440.09 KiB) Viewed 1328 times

[gnat]

This thing sold for almost twice over market. I don't know what the reserve was, but for that money I'd expect tires that were not bald and to have had it aligned for goodness sake.

From what I gather the price was a surprise and there was no expectation of it going more than normal for a BaT 996. The buyer just apparently really wanted that car.

You're right in that if I was the buyer I'd have walked away just based on that. If he can't be bothered to get the tires wearing correctly, what else hasn't he done?

I don't know if I would have walked away, but I would have definitely gotten new tires on it at a minimum. More likely I would have just cut my losses and risk and had it shipped to my Indy so he could give it a good look before I put any significant miles on it.

As a seller I wouldn't automatically put new tires on a car I was selling (but I wouldn't let them get like that!), but A) I would note their age and show their wear and B) at that kind of over average I'd reach out to the buyer (especially knowing they are planning to cross country it) and offer to have a new set installed for them before they got there.

As a buyer I'd personally rather you left old tires on the car and show me honest pictures of them as it helps gauge things like suspension/alignment issues. I also expect a seller to install the cheapest option they can find while I'd prefer something better.

Minimum this guy should have felt bad for selling a car at that price in this condition.

That's my thought which is why I said earlier that it would have been nice for him (given the sale price) to chip in on the towing and diagnostic charges.

[gnat]

Those Nitro tires were brand new and noted as newly installed in the auction.

I missed that. Ouch that is some terrible alignment from a "top notch" alignment tech for it to eat tires that fast

Still, if Deezy has the alignment report saying all is good, then the bone to be picked is with the tech that did the "work".

The problem is that in the auction, he promoted the car as running perfectly fine and "needing nothing"

Do you also believe that all old Vettes and Stangs were driven by little old ladies and only to church on Sundays?

Any buyer should always take claims like "needs nothing" with a grain of salt.

LN IMS Solution

The summary mentioning the Solution is my gripe with the auction. That is clearly a major selling point in the 996 world so it is a pretty major mistake to have been made that apparently neither BaT or Deezy want to own.

It was caught during the auction, however, and people asked about the discrepancy between the shown receipts and the summary information. Deezy/BaT failed to properly fix the situation though.

He has gone on record in saying he wouldn't agree to taking one of his auction cars for a PPI, because he thinks it's a waste of time.

I'd allow a potential buyer the option for a normal PPI, but only on the conditions that it is going somewhere that has a good reputation and that I get a full copy of the report as well to use as I see fit (e.g. to give to other potential buyers if that one walks away so I'm not constantly taking it for inspections).

I would not, however, allow for the type of inspection that Jake promotes. I would always show a car honestly and answer any questions I can, but my view is that you do that level of work on your own car and not someone else's that you are likely to walk away from if a problem is identified.

While I agree with Jake that a standard PPI won't answer the big questions, what it will give you is an idea of how honestly the car is being represented. After that, it's just a used car and you have to roll the dice if you think it's worth it.

This one stinks to high heaven. No buyer wants to drive off and break down three states later with catastrophic engine failure.

It certainly sucks, but I'm not sure it rises to the level of "stinks". Even Jake said on Rennlist (dammit) that he doesn't see indications that Deezy maliciously misrepresented the car.

Deezy appears to be like any other used car flipper. He made it look nice and talked it up well to sell the car. He didn't seem to know there were issues, but he also didn't seem to take the time to find out about even the most basic issues.

[billh1963]

BaT has had a reputation (right or wrong) as a being several steps above ebay or other similar venues. The site originally catered to enthusiasts (not unlike this forum or any other) and there was some perceived feelings of trust. I'm not saying the trust was warranted. But, it was there.

Now that the site has been sold, I think we are already seeing the slip. More and more dealers, curbstoners, and flippers (like deezy) are showing up on there. Not only that, but they are getting to the "front of the line" for getting their cars listed much more quickly than a private seller selling just one car. The large number of cars being auctioned at any given time has changed the experience as well.

Time will tell how this plays out.