My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

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32wildbilly
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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by 32wildbilly » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:06 pm

gnat wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:44 pm
b3freak wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:41 pm Oh well, so much for that. I'm sure the Porsche 991 is the same way... we're screwed! Would someone please pass the Vaseline! Ouch!!!
Yeap. 991.1 had the same PCM as I do in the P!g. It's not quite to the point you mention, but it's not far off.

Where you need Vaseline is in the states with safety inspections. Many (VA starts next year I think) are starting to require that your backup camera is operational if the car came with it installed (next steps is the Feds working on requiring the damn things :evil: ). So if you have one and your head unit goes on the fritz, you must get it fixed before the next inspection.


Oh, and Porsche and Audi want $5-7k for their head units :o !
...and there you have it!
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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by 5chn3ll » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:18 pm

I'm sure this is going to surprise some folks, but...I have to disagree. The audio quality of the base system in my 996 and the super-deluxe Bose rig in my 986 were sub-decent, bordering on pathetic. I suppose if you play music with flat equalization at VERY low volume, the 996's sound system might be passable, but any music played louder than medium volume starts to fall apart. Add some bass and the whole thing turns to complete crap.

Stock audio sucking in an entry-level Toyota or Hyundai might be forgivable, but it's downright pathetic in a luxury-class car that originally sold in the $80-100K range. I have owned some truly terrible cars over the years; the only cars I can remember that sounded demonstrably WORSE than the 996 included a Volvo 850 with 3" door speakers and a burgundy Ford Tempo.

Using a sub of some sort and dialing the bass out of the factory speakers is the only way I've been able to get acceptable audio out of the Porsche head units.
32wildbilly wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:00 pm I agree with you Billy, the basic CDR systems are decent, but compared to modern systems by Alpine, Sony, Kenwood, and others, it's old school sound especially when you compare the modern capabilities (e.g. Bluetooth, Nav, etc.) to these old units.

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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by 32wildbilly » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:37 pm

5chn3ll wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:18 pm
32wildbilly wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:00 pm I agree with you Billy, the basic CDR systems are decent, but compared to modern systems by Alpine, Sony, Kenwood, and others, it's old school sound especially when you compare the modern capabilities (e.g. Bluetooth, Nav, etc.) to these old units.
The above is a B3 quote not mine. I am without basic knowledge of current equipment capabilities. I can't even get the quote function to work properly. I am the one who is deaf! I play all my music LOUD. Sounds good enough for me. I'm deaf don't you know. Honestly most of the time I have the radio down low and windows open to hear the music from out back and I don't mean Australia.
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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by B3DAWG » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:31 am

5chn3ll wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:18 pm I'm sure this is going to surprise some folks, but...I have to disagree. The audio quality of the base system in my 996 and the super-deluxe Bose rig in my 986 were sub-decent, bordering on pathetic. I suppose if you play music with flat equalization at VERY low volume, the 996's sound system might be passable, but any music played louder than medium volume starts to fall apart. Add some bass and the whole thing turns to complete crap.

Stock audio sucking in an entry-level Toyota or Hyundai might be forgivable, but it's downright pathetic in a luxury-class car that originally sold in the $80-100K range. I have owned some truly terrible cars over the years; the only cars I can remember that sounded demonstrably WORSE than the 996 included a Volvo 850 with 3" door speakers and a burgundy Ford Tempo.

Using a sub of some sort and dialing the bass out of the factory speakers is the only way I've been able to get acceptable audio out of the Porsche head units.
32wildbilly wrote: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:00 pm I agree with you Billy, the basic CDR systems are decent, but compared to modern systems by Alpine, Sony, Kenwood, and others, it's old school sound especially when you compare the modern capabilities (e.g. Bluetooth, Nav, etc.) to these old units.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. The base systems in these cars, are not what I expected from a high-end car company. Both of my 996 cars had the non-Bost systems and so I can't comment on Bose in the 996. However, I have Bose in my 2015 Tahoe and had Bose setup in my '04 Tahoe and the sound quality is great IMHO, especially the 2015 system. The mid and high frequencies are very distinct ... the low bass is okay, MUCH better than my 2004 Tahoe Bose system. I guess it's not a fair comparison to the 911. We all know that Tahoes are about comfort and so the GM folks put lots of sound treatment in the car to make it a very quiet cabin. A quiet cabin translates to better sound control. If you put the GM Bose audio system in the 996, it would probably sound crappy too.

Looking behind the door panels in the 996 and other trim areas of the car, you'll notice that Porsche didn't do much to minimize unwanted ambient noise... sound treatment is at the minimum. I guess that's okay because most Porsche owners just want to experience driving the car and not concentrate on the sound system.

If you remember, I installed a complete Blaupunkt system with frunk amp on my last 996. The sound quality was mediocre and it was probably because of the stock HAES speakers. If I had kept the car, my next step would have been to replace the speakers. The current system that I inherited was the preverbal "box of chocolates"... that is, uncovering one panel revealed more unexpected crap to have to correct. Thankfully, after installing some new Kicker speakers, the system sounds pretty darn good. And yes, you can't increase the volume without bass distortion (i.e. popping) and that is probably from the HAES/Harman frunk amp. I may swap it out in time, but I don't know my next steps. I just want to enjoy the car for a time before doing the next upgrade.

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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by 32wildbilly » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:45 am

b3freak wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:31 am Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. The base systems in these cars, are not what I expected from a high-end car company. Both of my 996 cars had the non-Bost systems and so I can't comment on Bose in the 996. However, I have Bose in my 2015 Tahoe and had Bose setup in my '04 Tahoe and the sound quality is great IMHO, especially the 2015 system. The mid and high frequencies are very distinct ... the low bass is okay, MUCH better than my 2004 Tahoe Bose system. I guess it's not a fair comparison to the 911. We all know that Tahoes are about comfort and so the GM folks put lots of sound treatment in the car to make it a very quiet cabin. A quiet cabin translates to better sound control. If you put the GM Bose audio system in the 996, it would probably sound crappy too.
What is this mid and high range frequencies of which you speak? I thought it was all about that bass... :roll:
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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by B3DAWG » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:11 am

32wildbilly wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:45 am
What is this mid and high range frequencies of which you speak? I thought it was all about that bass... :roll:
All about that BASS no treble! 8-)
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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by B3DAWG » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:01 am

Got the replacement Kicker speakers installed in the car. Had to cut out and reuse the speaker baskets for the dash and rear, but finally got everything installed and took it for a drive yesterday and wow!... the sound much MUCH better. Now I can "pump up the volume" and "push it" really good!... or, at least until it distorts Becker style! haha

The door speakers are still popping at higher levels of bass and it's my theory the problem is the HAES amp is clipping the signal. I want to think the Becker HU has a decent line level pre-amp signal feeding the amp.

I also checked the polarity of the HAES amp and it doesn't match the schematics in the shop manual. Porsche is pretty consistent in that the solid is + and strip is -. I checked the speaker lines and all is right as far as matching colors.

This is strange! I did check the polarity at the speaker level and set it correctly based on the multimeter, but I still wonder why the polarity was different coming off the amp??? Any thoughts? Could the aging components in an amp cause polarity to switch? What am I missing here??? Engineer help please!

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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by 32wildbilly » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:44 am

b3freak wrote: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:01 am Got the replacement Kicker speakers installed in the car. Had to cut out and reuse the speaker baskets for the dash and rear, but finally got everything installed and took it for a drive yesterday and wow!... the sound much MUCH better. Now I can "pump up the volume" and "push it" really good!... or, at least until it distorts Becker style! haha
"Becker Style"!
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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by 32wildbilly » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:52 am

Ok not to wind this up again, but drove the toy car today running errands again. Listened to some Uriah Heep, Tom Petty and Free Bird from Lynyrd Skynyrd all at 25 to 26 volume. It sounds good and I'm happy. I have no idea about the history of this system. Perhaps someone like B3 stuffed better speakers in the Bose enclosures, but I hear zero distortion/break-up even at that volume level which rendered the inside rear view mirror unusable. Not sure if the license plates surrounds were also vibrating but it was loud. Fun to watch people pull up along side, look over, see an old guy enjoying that much volume and the subsequent look on their faces!
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Re: My 2002 996 "renovation" thread

Post by B3DAWG » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:10 am

32wildbilly wrote: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:52 am Ok not to wind this up again, but drove the toy car today running errands again. Listened to some Uriah Heep, Tom Petty and Free Bird from Lynyrd Skynyrd all at 25 to 26 volume. It sounds good and I'm happy. I have no idea about the history of this system. Perhaps someone like B3 stuffed better speakers in the Bose enclosures, but I hear zero distortion/break-up even at that volume level which rendered the inside rear view mirror unusable. Not sure if the license plates surrounds were also vibrating but it was loud. Fun to watch people pull up along side, look over, see an old guy enjoying that much volume and the subsequent look on their faces!

rw8la.jpg
What system do you have Wild Bill? Is it CDR-23 with Bose? Or, PCM?

Mine of course, is the older CDR-220/Harman analogy. But it was the "tecknik" (think that's how they spell it) upgrade which gives me the frunk amp and 6 speaker system. The door speaker are not sub quality, but supposed to be "full range". The HAES speakers that came out of those enclosers were simple paper cone 2 ohm woofer. I installed simple coaxial Kickers that can handle up to 200W. Either the signal is clipping before it hits the speakers OR the speakers are not breathing enough which could cause some popping due to the resistance. I'm leaning towards the amp, because even at mid-volume you can hear the unwanted bass pop. At mid volume the bass doesn't cause the cone to move much at all. And so, the ports should be fine. We'll see in time. I just hope and pray the pre-amp signal from the CDR-220 are clean. Schnelly gave me that HU and say the he also notice bass distortion at upper levels.

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