A fuel-ish question

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Einsteiger
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A fuel-ish question

Post by Einsteiger » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:53 am

This is a question for midwest memebers - specifically involving Hy-Vee stores. [NE, KS, MO, IA]

Hy-Vee grocery also has gas stations. They offer both regular and premium in non-ethanol blends. I've been using the 91-octane no-ethanol premium in the 996.

Most of the pundits think that top-tier fuels are best for Porsche: Shell, Phillips, Mobil, etc., but I had thought that a premium fuel without ethanol would be preferable to a premium with ethanol.

Shell and the like offer additives that are likely beneficial, but if you have to add something like Defender or Techron to counteract the ethanol in the Shell / Phillips / whatever fuels, why not avoid ethanol altogether?

This is probably worse than another oil topic, but I was curious to know if anyone knows WHERE Hy-Vee fuels come from? I found very little on the interweb - just a third-hand reference that someone thought their gas came via the Magellan pipeline...but a lot can happen between refinery and the end retailer.

I've never been able to time it so that I see the fuel delivery tanker when it stops at my local station. That could tell the source. They probably show up under the cover of darkness to keep their secret safe.
Kevin
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Eastern Kansas

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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by gnat » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:22 am

Other than refusing to put Shell in it, we've never been picky about what goes into the 996. Citgo, Exxon, Hess, random no name, it all works. Would love to get non-ethanol, but that doesn't exist on the coast.

We avoid Shell due to anecdotal experience of cars knocking more and getting worse gas milage unless that is the only has you use.

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02TX996Cab
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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by 02TX996Cab » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:09 am

My $0.02 -- note this is an educated guess as opposed to hard data, but 35+ years in the oil refining business informs the guess.

Given their geographical spread across several states, Hy-Vee likely sources their fuels from a number of local/regional distributors ("marketing terminals"). The distributors inject additives into the base gasolines they buy from refiners, and different distributors can source additives from different manufacturers. Accordingly, there's likely no single answer as to where Hy-Vee gets their gasoline, and the answer could change region to region and will change every time they swap distributors.

My experience is similar to Gnat's -- my 996 (and in fact all my other vehicles) run well on whatever I feed them. I think buying from a station that does a lot of business and has high inventory turnover (=fresher fuel) is more important than the exact brand. Federal regulations dictate the minimum quality of base gasoline as well as the minimum levels of additives. For most cars those minimum requirements are plenty good enough.

Side note 1: When you buy gasoline from one of the biggies like Exxon, Shell or Chevron/Texaco, what' you're really buying is their proprietary additives. The base gasoline won't necessary be made in one of their own refineries.

Side note 2: "Top Tier" is an optional third-party "certification" that a company selling fuel can choose to participate in or not. So whilst having Top Tier designation indicates it's a good fuel, not having it does not mean the fuel is any less good--one simply cannot tell.
Proud owner of a Flat6-powered 2002 996 Cab, 2016 GT4, 2019 Ford F-150 "Country Cadillac", and 2005 Ford Focus (not so hot hatch) daily driver. And a Wright ZTO 52" to keep several acres of grass-like substance neat and tidy!

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32wildbilly
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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by 32wildbilly » Sat Feb 06, 2021 10:15 am

Kevin: I have no direct info, but I know you can use your Hy Vee points at Shell stations however I'm sure the Shell gas starts out more expensive.
...or like 02TX said above.
Here is something I found from 2015"
For those who have Hyvee grocery stores that sell gas. The have a rewards program that gets you cents off a gallon. You can use it a Caseys General Stores and SHELL too! https://www.fuelrewards.com/fuelrewards/hy-vee So I emailed Hyvee and asked if their gas was Top Tier. The reply, FW: Live Chat - Fuel question Hello Kelly, Thank you very much for reaching out to Hy-Vee with your questions. Hy-Vee receives their fuel supply from several different unbranded suppliers. All of our fuel is bought with the required fuel additives, but does not contain the extra Top Tier additive. Most of the fuel that is sold at all of the gas stations does not contain the extra Top Tier additive. We are continuing to look into the Top Tier additive. If you have any other questions, please let us know. Thank you and have a great weekend. Joe Weber | Fuel Purchasing Specialist | Hy-Vee, Inc | 5820 Westown Parkway | West Des Moines, IA 50266 Phone 515-327-2165 | e-Fax 515-313-2716
Einsteiger wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:53 am This is a question for midwest memebers - specifically involving Hy-Vee stores. [NE, KS, MO, IA]

Hy-Vee grocery also has gas stations. They offer both regular and premium in non-ethanol blends. I've been using the 91-octane no-ethanol premium in the 996.

Most of the pundits think that top-tier fuels are best for Porsche: Shell, Phillips, Mobil, etc., but I had thought that a premium fuel without ethanol would be preferable to a premium with ethanol.

Shell and the like offer additives that are likely beneficial, but if you have to add something like Defender or Techron to counteract the ethanol in the Shell / Phillips / whatever fuels, why not avoid ethanol altogether?

This is probably worse than another oil topic, but I was curious to know if anyone knows WHERE Hy-Vee fuels come from? I found very little on the interweb - just a third-hand reference that someone thought their gas came via the Magellan pipeline...but a lot can happen between refinery and the end retailer.

I've never been able to time it so that I see the fuel delivery tanker when it stops at my local station. That could tell the source. They probably show up under the cover of darkness to keep their secret safe.
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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by OceanBlue2000 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:28 am

Isn't the ethanol avoidance thing not about performance, but how the ethanol affects older cars fuel distribution systems, which are not set up to handle ethanol? I believe I remember from the 928 forums that ethanol was to be avoided because it ate the older fuel lines. Not sure if we should avoid it for the same reasons in the 996.
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Einsteiger
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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by Einsteiger » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:04 am

The nice customer service rep with Hy-Vee stores referred me to their petroleum procurement group, who have not and probably will not respond.

While I have had no issues with their ethanol free blends, I can only trust that they are from a reputable source.

The indy shop that did my M96 upgrades and fixes said that I'd likely be better off with a 91 octane ethanol-free fuel as opposed to a 93 octane ethanol-laden fuel like Shell offers.

So...until I find out that Hy-Vee gets black market fuel from the Venezuelan communistas, I guess I'll stick with it. :)
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02TX996Cab
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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by 02TX996Cab » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:27 am

OceanBlue2000 wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:28 am Isn't the ethanol avoidance thing not about performance, but how the ethanol affects older cars fuel distribution systems, which are not set up to handle ethanol? I believe I remember from the 928 forums that ethanol was to be avoided because it ate the older fuel lines. Not sure if we should avoid it for the same reasons in the 996.
The two issues I've heard attributed to ethanol blends are:
  • Ethanol is less "energy dense" than petroleum, so your fuel mileage is lower with ethanol blends than with ethanol-free fuels; the impact for a 10% ethanol blend is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 3-5% drop in fuel economy
  • Ethanol is "hygroscopic" (attracts moisture) and some have concerns that ethanol blends could absorb water more readily and even experience phase separation, the results of which would be like having some liquid water in your fuel and cars don't like that; this, I think, may be true in a lab but AFAIK hasn't materialized in real-world use. (If my fading memory serves, this was a bigger and more legitimate concern when folks were looking to mix methanol into gasoline during the 70's energy crisis.)
My 996 gets driven in places where ethanol-free is not an option. Zero fuel system issues. Most anyone is a city or in an air quality non-attainment area will also be forced to feed ethanol blended fuel to their 996s.

Unless you drive your car really hard, where you *need* the few extra HP your 996 will deliver running 93 octane, use whichever fuel makes you feel more comfortable and/or pocketbook happier.
Proud owner of a Flat6-powered 2002 996 Cab, 2016 GT4, 2019 Ford F-150 "Country Cadillac", and 2005 Ford Focus (not so hot hatch) daily driver. And a Wright ZTO 52" to keep several acres of grass-like substance neat and tidy!

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Einsteiger
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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by Einsteiger » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:36 pm

Or for the truly ethanol-paranoid, Sta-Bil 360 is something that can be used to deal with the hydroscopic tendencies of the dreaded ethanol.

I figure as long as I can get it, I'll use ethanol free. For my 1987 Benz 560SL, my indy guy strongly recommended avoiding ethanol, citing fuel system deterioration issues, etc. A new fuel distributor for that old dog was about $900 for the part alone...if you could find one.
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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by FRUNKenstein » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:10 am

Einsteiger wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:36 pm Or for the truly ethanol-paranoid, Sta-Bil 360 is something that can be used to deal with the hydroscopic tendencies of the dreaded ethanol.

I figure as long as I can get it, I'll use ethanol free. For my 1987 Benz 560SL, my indy guy strongly recommended avoiding ethanol, citing fuel system deterioration issues, etc. A new fuel distributor for that old dog was about $900 for the part alone...if you could find one.
Kevin:
I think you need to source some 100 octane from Heartland Park. I think it's only $8 or $9 per gallon. :D

On a serious note, for my 996, I use 91 octane from HyVee at 135th & Antioch (very busy), QT (also busy), Costco and then the Zipz station (Conoco, I think) at 127th & Antioch(less busy). From time to time, I will spring for the 93 octane at the BP station at College & Antioch. I've never had a fuel system issue (knock on wood). Frankly, the only one I worry about is buying the 93 octane at BP because it isn't a busy station and I wonder how many people pay the extra 50% premium over 89 octane just to get 93 octane. In other words, I worry about it being stale.

For the record, even though I sold the '99 C4 back in March 2015, I never experienced a fuel issue with it even though I bought from basically QT and Zipz.
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Re: A fuel-ish question

Post by gnat » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:54 am

FRUNKenstein wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:10 am I think you need to source some 100 octane from Heartland Park. I think it's only $8 or $9 per gallon.
You kid, but the tank I got from Summit Point when I did that DE with DTM was the best the 996 has ever run.

I can tell the difference between it getting 91 and 93 octane (or god forbid the one time the dumb ass at the Porsche dealer put 87 in it!!! :shock: ). The anti-knock system really does it's job well. On that 100 octane, however, it ran so smooth and on hot summer days it had the pep usually reserved for crisp fall days.

Given how long a tank of gas lasts in the 996, I would pay $5-10/gallon to put 100+ in it if there was a pump reasonably close (I'm not burning a half tank for the round trip to SP!). Now if we were driving it regularly, NFW!

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