996Outpost.com

So from finally reading the booklet on this device I noticed the allowable temperature range for storage.

Maximum 50c which is 122f. Absolute maximum is 80c or 176f

While I'm not worried about 176f inside my car as it is not a battery powered vehicle 122f is an easily reachable inside car temperature during the summers around here. Yesterday topped out at 103f actual ambient temperature. I can't even imagine how hot it gets inside a vehicle in places like Phoenix and Las Vegas.

The booklet doesn't say what occurs if the temps are exceeded.

Does it reduce function or does it go full Torch Boy?

Just wondering...

122 is probably ok as long as it is allowed to cool back to a more reasonable temp before you try to use it. Consistent exposure make have an impact on it to hold it's charge.

There is probably still a bit of head room for safety, but 176 is possibly approaching car-b-q risk. 80c is within the glass temp range of common plastics (ABS, HIPS, PS - 90, PET - 73, PETG - 79, PVC 60) that might be included in it. So the concern could be the integrity of the insulation and terminal separation should it get hot enough to allow the plastics to deform.

122 degrees ambient is the temp that lithium-ion (18650 cells, specifically - as that is my area of "expertise"*) will start to degrade, shortening their service life. The cells I use aren't rated for storage above 140 degrees, but I don't know what's in your jump box. I also don't know how long it takes a jump pack in a 140 degree car to reach that temperature internally. I keep our jump packs under a seat or in a storage compartment, so they're never exposed to direct sunlight. They also stay in their cases. It will take a LOT longer for the jump pack to get dangerously hot when shaded... air isn't a great thermal conductor.

I believe* 176 degrees is the point where the cells can no longer safely sustain their rated discharge current - so jumping your car when the pack is >= 176 degrees would be inadvisable unless an insurance claim is the desired outcome.

*Remember, I'm an idiot.

5chn3ll wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:48 am 122 degrees ambient is the temp that lithium-ion (18650 cells, specifically - as that is my area of "expertise"*) will start to degrade, shortening their service life. The cells I use aren't rated for storage above 140 degrees, but I don't know what's in your jump box. I also don't know how long it takes a jump pack in a 140 degree car to reach that temperature internally. I keep our jump packs under a seat or in a storage compartment, so they're never exposed to direct sunlight. They also stay in their cases. It will take a LOT longer for the jump pack to get dangerously hot when shaded... air isn't a great thermal conductor.

I believe* 176 degrees is the point where the cells can no longer safely sustain their rated discharge current - so jumping your car when the pack is >= 176 degrees would be inadvisable unless an insurance claim is the desired outcome.

*Remember, I'm an idiot.

gnat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:41 am 122 is probably ok as long as it is allowed to cool back to a more reasonable temp before you try to use it. Consistent exposure make have an impact on it to hold it's charge.

There is probably still a bit of head room for safety, but 176 is possibly approaching car-b-q risk. 80c is within the glass temp range of common plastics (ABS, HIPS, PS - 90, PET - 73, PETG - 79, PVC 60) that might be included in it. So the concern could be the integrity of the insulation and terminal separation should it get hot enough to allow the plastics to deform.

Great and entertaining ideas from both of you. Thanks.

Think I'll put it in an insulated bag and make sure it is shaded. After all my car spends very little time sitting in the sun...rain...wind...snow(God forbid!)...or any type of inclement weather.

Frunk or inside the car?

If you have a manual frunk release, I’d go with the frunk.

5chn3ll wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:59 am If you have a manual frunk release, I’d go with the frunk.

Good point...DUH

So I ran a "test" yesterday using a common "zip close insulated" bag. I used a remote digital thermometer paired with it's base unit which has been seen to be somewhat consistence in temps displayed(within1f). Placed the bag with the remote and the base on our enclosed deck with the frosted plexiglass roof(wouldn't recommend this design unless shaded by trees...can you say "Hothouse", of course you can). Location items placed was out of direct "sun" and left air conditioner off. Max temperature inside deck was 93f.

Results: Failure. The bag tracked the ambient temps minus 1f-2f. Interesting thing is when the temps started cooling the bag held it's temp for a little longer than ambient so it does have some insulating properties.

Today I'm going to try one of those tin foil bubble wrap foam layer bags you see in insulated packages. The outer layer of foil could be the ticket. Maybe I should just wear the bag on my head and move on, but I gotta have something to do.

BTW NOCO finally got back to me and had less valuable information than you two. Mostly customer service/lawyer speak. He did not address my "spontaneous unplanned deconstruction" question.

Tin foil bubble/foam bag test results. Only effective result was when placed in diffused sunlight through the plexiglass roof was 15f lower than ambient. Tin foil reflection works... duh!

Tomorrow is supposed to be mid 90's and sunshine. Since it seems we all done with the severe thunderstorms complete with 60mph winds and large hail until Wednesday I took the car cover off of the Honda. The plan tomorrow is to place the remote thermometer in various places in the Honda to see what the heat rise actually is in hot weather. Honda is metallic gray so close to seal gray.

Results of Honda temperature test.

Car in driveway facing north. Thermometer on floorboard in rear seating area and never in direct sun. Full sun coverage @10:30am. through @6:00pm. Thermometer has a trend arrow that displays change compared to previous reading.

7:10am: ambient: 78. car: 76.7(no sun)
12:41pm: ambient: 93. car: 111.5(trend up)
1:45pm: ambient: 93. car: 118.1(trend down)
2:35pm: ambient: 94. car: 114.7(trend down)
3:20pm: ambient 94. car: 114.6(steady)
4:33pm: ambient: 95. car: 116.5(trend up)
6:00pm: ambient: 94. car: 116.6(trend down)

Impressions: If jumper start device electronics can live at 122f I guess it would be safe to keep in a car. Also guessing there is a "margin of error" built in by the marketing people. People who live in hotter climates should reconsider though.

Direct sun likely makes a large difference on temperatures inside of the car. I'd err on the side of caution if I were unable to keep the car sheltered from direct sun.

FWIW, I have a small duffle bag that I move from car to car whenever I take a road trip of any length. In it I keep my NOCO jumpbox, V1 case and accessories, and "top down" items (sunscreen, windbreaker, etc.). It took me a while to get into the habit of always moving the duffle from car to car; now that I do so reliably, I'm comfortable with that approach to keeping me safe from sunburn, the PoPo and exploding Li-Ion batteries.