Another Tesla driver idiot...

[32wildbilly]

I agree with the "seatbelts probably would have saved the kid's life."

How about placing the responsibility for the collision, not the fatality, at the feet of the inattentive Tesla driver then? After doing that what might have impacted the inattentive behavior by the Tesla driver? Applying the brakes "a fraction of a second before impact" sounds like a "la dee dah-Instagram/TikToc/Facebook/(insert whatever social media site here)-what's that?-holy SHIT! jambs on the brakes" reaction to me.

...but maybe I'm being too logical or perhaps cynical.

Oops - I read "neither the driver nor Autopilot" as Autopilot wasn't engaged.

Reading is hard. Getting ejected through the windshield is also hard - and that wouldn't have happened if Pops had insisted the kid wear his seatbelt.

It takes 4+ seconds to stop from 60MPH (plus driver reaction time) - and the driver of the vehicle that got hit has a known history of ignoring traffic laws. It's awful that the kid lost his life, but I'm having a hard time putting this in Tesla's lap.

[gnat]

I agree with the "seatbelts probably would have saved the kid's life."

How about placing the responsibility for the collision, not the fatality, at the feet of the inattentive Tesla driver then? After doing that what might have impacted the inattentive behavior by the Tesla driver? Applying the brakes "a fraction of a second before impact" sounds like a "la dee dah-Instagram/TikToc/Facebook/(insert whatever social media site here)-what's that?-holy SHIT! jambs on the brakes" reaction to me.

...but maybe I'm being too logical or perhaps cynical.

Oops - I read "neither the driver nor Autopilot" as Autopilot wasn't engaged.

Reading is hard. Getting ejected through the windshield is also hard - and that wouldn't have happened if Pops had insisted the kid wear his seatbelt.

It takes 4+ seconds to stop from 60MPH (plus driver reaction time) - and the driver of the vehicle that got hit has a known history of ignoring traffic laws. It's awful that the kid lost his life, but I'm having a hard time putting this in Tesla's lap.

Certainly the Tesla driver is at fault for not paying attention and thus causing (or failing to avoid) the accident (don't know about CA, but in VA if you rear end someone you are always at fault regardless of what the person in front did). There is also fault on Tesla (I think) for enabling idiots like this.

The kid's death is all on dad though. As both the driver of the car and the parent he had the responsibility of making sure the kid was safe. But hey, this is America, blame someone else rather than accept personal responsibility

[32wildbilly]

Seat belts. Yeah when I was young and wild my seat belt usage was spotty until I drove a few race cars including flipping once plus a few crashes and near crashes and realized how valuable seat belts really are. When the kids were young the engine didn't get started until I heard three seat belts snap on. Today with the grandkids I do the same thing. Neat thing is I never had to tell the grandkids.

Feels kinds good that just perhaps I had something to do with that requirement going to another generation.

I agree with the "seatbelts probably would have saved the kid's life."

How about placing the responsibility for the collision, not the fatality, at the feet of the inattentive Tesla driver then? After doing that what might have impacted the inattentive behavior by the Tesla driver? Applying the brakes "a fraction of a second before impact" sounds like a "la dee dah-Instagram/TikToc/Facebook/(insert whatever social media site here)-what's that?-holy SHIT! jambs on the brakes" reaction to me.

...but maybe I'm being too logical or perhaps cynical.

Certainly the Tesla driver is at fault for not paying attention and thus causing (or failing to avoid) the accident (don't know about CA, but in VA if you rear end someone you are always at fault regardless of what the person in front did). There is also fault on Tesla (I think) for enabling idiots like this.

The kid's death is all on dad though. As both the driver of the car and the parent he had the responsibility of making sure the kid was safe. But hey, this is America, blame someone else rather than accept personal responsibility

[02TX996Cab]

I learned the gospel of seatbelts just before my 18th birthday, which was a *few* years ago, when I earned a speeding ticket in my small home town. Being a juvenile, I had the mandatory pleasure of attending court in person with a parent (I chose my Dad).

In court I pled guilty (= traffic school and nothing was placed on my driving record). The judge had only two questions, one of which was whether I was wearing my seatbelt. I wasn't; it wasn't required. Nevertheless, the judge admonished me to always wear my seatbelt, explaining it could save my life, and asked my commitment to do so. Message understood and I've worn one without fail ever since. It made a huge impression on me that the judge would take a minute of his and the court's time to positively influence behavior. If I recall correctly it also influenced my parents to become regular belt wearers.

Oh yeah, the other question was for my Dad which was whether I was doing well at school and at home. My Dad answered in the affirmative

[32wildbilly]

Smart guy that judge.

I learned the gospel of seatbelts just before my 18th birthday, which was a *few* years ago, when I earned a speeding ticket in my small home town. Being a juvenile, I had the mandatory pleasure of attending court in person with a parent (I chose my Dad).

In court I pled guilty (= traffic school and nothing was placed on my driving record). The judge had only two questions, one of which was whether I was wearing my seatbelt. I wasn't; it wasn't required. Nevertheless, the judge admonished me to always wear my seatbelt, explaining it could save my life, and asked my commitment to do so. Message understood and I've worn one without fail ever since. It made a huge impression on me that the judge would take a minute of his and the court's time to positively influence behavior. If I recall correctly it also influenced my parents to become regular belt wearers.

Oh yeah, the other question was for my Dad which was whether I was doing well at school and at home. My Dad answered in the affirmative

[5chn3ll]

I looked - briefly - for a video of the accident and failed. If the dude pulled out in front of the Tesla and the Tesla had enough time to brake but didn't, it sounds like the Tesla might have contributed to - or even caused, if the time was sufficient - the accident. The other (principal, IMO) contributor is the guy in the SUV who pulled out of a stopped lane of traffic into one moving at 60+ MPH.

If the Tesla had been a semi...or a Buick...I'm not sure the outcome would have been appreciably different. If the SUV driver had (a) not made his lane change, and/or (b) had not had an unrestrained passenger, the outcome would have been appreciably different.

Caveat: standalone (non-networked) autonomous vehicles will become more and more obviously stupid over time...in my tremendously under-informed opinion.

[32wildbilly]

I couldn't agree more and that's been my point all along. I think "we" are a long way off from "smart vehicles talking to each other".

I've been out of the railroad industry since 2005 but back then we were testing positive train separation/control. It was a system involving transponders and satellites to keep stupid, lazy or sleeping engineers from running trains together. It was a form of trains talking to trains. It was VERY expensive and somewhat hinky in performance.

Because as you might imagine running trains together makes a HUGE mess.

Caveat: standalone (non-networked) autonomous vehicles will become more and more obviously stupid over time...

.

[theprf]

Positive train control has been in operation for a few years now. It's not without it's problems, mostly because it needs to be shut off to do things like set out cars - you know, the sort of stuff that local freight trains do all day. Then the engineers and conductors forget to update the consist or even turn it back on.

We've had positive separation for airliners for many years with TCAS. The TCAS in the planes communicate with each other to determine the best avoidance maneuver and coordinate actions, so both planes don't (for example) climb to the same altitude. Even non-TCAS planes are included because of the transponders, and the Mode-S transponders now required are even better in that regard. The inter-plane communication started with TCAS-2 about 10-15 years ago, the original TCAS-1 used a rule-based structure to provide avoidance maneuvers.

I am not so sure about positive separation between cars. It's being worked on, inter-vehicle communication systems. I expect we'll see it required within the next 10 years. And it's going to be a complete charlie-fox at the beginning. Imagine the field day that hackers will have.

[32wildbilly]

Great! That's all we need is a CF on the highways in the near future.

Positive train control has been in operation for a few years now. It's not without it's problems, mostly because it needs to be shut off to do things like set out cars - you know, the sort of stuff that local freight trains do all day. Then the engineers and conductors forget to update the consist or even turn it back on.

We've had positive separation for airliners for many years with TCAS. The TCAS in the planes communicate with each other to determine the best avoidance maneuver and coordinate actions, so both planes don't (for example) climb to the same altitude. Even non-TCAS planes are included because of the transponders, and the Mode-S transponders now required are even better in that regard. The inter-plane communication started with TCAS-2 about 10-15 years ago, the original TCAS-1 used a rule-based structure to provide avoidance maneuvers.

I am not so sure about positive separation between cars. It's being worked on, inter-vehicle communication systems. I expect we'll see it required within the next 10 years. And it's going to be a complete charlie-fox at the beginning. Imagine the field day that hackers will have.

[gnat]

Imagine the field day that hackers will have.

As someone who has indirect involvement with network security and has played with CAN hacking, the idea of networked cars scares the ever loving shit out of me. In the last 10 years they've finally pulled their heads slightly out and created a firewall between the entertainment and "safety" buses, but if you got control of the bridge module (usually the radio or gauge cluster) you still had access to it all.

It isn't easy, but there was a hack some time ago (10 years? longer?) where someone managed to spoof an OnStar connection and was able to take control over critical aspects of the car (they could apply the brakes, give the engine gas, turn the engine off, etc..).

I don't trust car manufacturers to build a secure system where cars can talk to each other without being fooled into doing something dangerous. Maybe Tesla, but definitely not the Fords, GMs, Toyotas, etc..