The Hunt

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JohnIreland
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Re: The Hunt

Post by JohnIreland » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:56 am

If the car was in town, I'd agree. But before I spend four plus hours going back and forth, plus the time looking at the car, I want some basic understandings laid out and agreed to. For a local car I just see it first and then talk about price. I looked at the carfax, gave as little information as they usually do...good for things like "accidents".....but rarely give any service details. At 1490000 miles I don't want either of us wasting each other's time. If their prices aren't realistic then either they aren't realistic about the car or they're just throwing spaghetti against the wall. Unless they could show me receipts for all the work I've mentioned, the car isn't worth their price.

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32wildbilly
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Re: The Hunt

Post by 32wildbilly » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:05 am

best-selling author, occasional Gitmo AirBNB guest, and internationally-renowned automotive fashion consultant John Ireland wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:56 am If the car was in town, I'd agree. But before I spend four plus hours going back and forth, plus the time looking at the car, I want some basic understandings laid out and agreed to. For a local car I just see it first and then talk about price. I looked at the carfax, gave as little information as they usually do...good for things like "accidents".....but rarely give any service details. At 1490000 miles I don't want either of us wasting each other's time. If their prices aren't realistic then either they aren't realistic about the car or they're just throwing spaghetti against the wall. Unless they could show me receipts for all the work I've mentioned, the car isn't worth their price.
1.5 million miles!! That's a lot of miles! :lol:
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Dr_Strangelove
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Re: The Hunt

Post by Dr_Strangelove » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:22 am

best-selling author, occasional Gitmo AirBNB guest, and internationally-renowned automotive fashion consultant John Ireland wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:56 amIf their prices aren't realistic then either they aren't realistic about the car or they're just throwing spaghetti against the wall. Unless they could show me receipts for all the work I've mentioned, the car isn't worth their price.

This is true JI, but consider what Billy said. Even though you're a serious buyer you may be mentally getting lumped in with phony tire kickers in the seller's head because you're opening on why the car isn't worth the ask.
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JohnIreland
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Re: The Hunt

Post by JohnIreland » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:06 pm

You're right. But I hate to waste time. The seller just emailed me and gave me the line about the car just had a 150 point inspection. I politely restated my case that their $17000+ price was out of line...the lack service records, the high miles, that the carfax trade-in value was $5910 and the retail was just over $8000. I then told them about the car in LA, same exact car but blue, with only 91k miles and a price of $14979. I also said I doubt they paid more than $8000 for the car when they bought it, but I offered them $13500 or $15100 with all taxes and fees included...if I like the car when I see it in person. So the ball is in their court. If I go down to see it, the car has to be up on a rack for me to inspect before I'll even take it on the road. We will see what happens. My point of view is that I might want to buy a 996.1 right now, but I certainly don't need to. I'm willing to sit on my money until I get what I want at the price I want to pay.

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gnat
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Re: The Hunt

Post by gnat » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:34 pm

Have to agree with the others, I think you'll miss good candidates because you're gonna get the blown off. I personally would have either not responded or responded with a few choice words depending on my mood at the time.

I totally understand your side of the coin though. Having to wade through the junk and spend more money/time (that could be going to the car) only to find that either the car is not as represented and/or the seller isn't willing to budge on an inflated price.

I think you are looking for a unicorn here though with your criteria. What you want is someone that has taken good care of the car, but doesn't really know what they have so are willing to sell it cheap. While I'm sure that exists I think the majority will be people that have taken care of the car and know it's value or people that are hoping to find someone blinded by the Porsche badge like they were. Both will be asking more than you are set on paying and probably more than it's really worth.

But if you have the patience to wait (sometimes it sounds like you do, others it sounds like you're in a rush) then your chances of finding that unicorn are certainly more likely.

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FRUNKenstein
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Re: The Hunt

Post by FRUNKenstein » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:55 pm

I think you acknowledged this a few posts ago, but there is absolutely no reason to do an IMSB replacement on a '99 tiptronic car with 149,000 miles.

I've bought and sold a lot of cars as I've had a dealer's license since 2001. I think the most effective technique to get the best price on a car is to talk about how much you like it - emphasize the positive things about it. Show the seller that you really like the car and want to buy it and will appreciate it and take good care of it. Convince them that you are their target market for selling this car. Then, and only then, let them know your reasons for not being able to pay their asking price. You've done a good job of listing those reasons - very high mileage, bluebook values, asking price of comparable cars, things that are wrong with the car (that the asking price does not take into account). Basically, you are going to convince yourself with data about what the appropriate sale price, so share that with them in an objective, non-adversarial manner.

You'll get much further with ingratiating yourself to them and speaking logic than you will with throwing out a barrage of stuff. Any car with 149,000 is going to have needs. You could justify that its value is $0 (or negative) by pointing out all the parts that are going to have to be replaced or MIGHT need to be replaced. When I sell a car, I price it according to the market and the car and its warts (all used cars have warts). When somebody throws out an absurd offer to me, I don't even reply if it is via text or email. They are wasting my time. Frankly, if your evaluation of a vehicle is that it is truly worth significantly less than an asking price, then you are probably wasting your time talking to that seller. If the car is overpriced, then let the market beat them up until they lower their price to something close to what your evaluation of value is. For example, if you think the 149k mile speed yellow tippy is worth $14,000, and they are asking $19,000, then you are too far apart to waste your time. Wait until they drop their asking to $17,000 before even bothering.

If every car you look at sells at a price higher than what you think it is worth, then that's the market beating you up. If you keep evaluating the value of cars as much less than asking, and the cars are selling based on their current asking, then you need to value the cars a little higher, or else you'll never get a car. The good news is that you are in no hurry. Time is on your side. Labor Day will be here, and the best buys will be had in October, November & December.
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5chn3ll
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Re: The Hunt

Post by 5chn3ll » Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 pm

If shopping at your price point consistently brings you to cars that you feel are not worth what the sellers are asking, it might be worth examining one or both of your conclusions...

best-selling author, occasional Gitmo AirBNB guest, and internationally-renowned automotive fashion consultant John Ireland wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:15 am Logic tells me to not go back and reconsider cars I walked away from.

Logic also tells me to hold my price point.
20200718_000521_resized.jpg

Understeer: You will hit the wall with the front end.
Oversteer: You will hit the wall with the rear end.
Horsepower: How hard you will hit the wall.
Torque: How far you will move the wall.

Gone hunting with Alec Baldwin and Dick Cheney. Back soon.

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JohnIreland
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Re: The Hunt

Post by JohnIreland » Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:44 pm

Thanks to all of you for your intelligent advice. I think my own personality might be making things a little more uphill than they need to be. By the way the yellow car is a 2001. A 99 I would be more comfortable with. And suddenly I running into Tips just when I started looking at manuals. Driving the Blue Tip the other day made me realize that I could make that work. You can't really blip the throttle to announce your arrival in a Tip...but that's something I would rarely do...but it is fun...just a little blip.

I'm sure you've all seen this video but I just ran into and watched, and thought I'd share.



More later.

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32wildbilly
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Re: The Hunt

Post by 32wildbilly » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:45 pm

5chn3ll wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 pm If shopping at your price point consistently brings you to cars that you feel are not worth what the sellers are asking, it might be worth examining one or both of your conclusions...

best-selling author, occasional Gitmo AirBNB guest, and internationally-renowned automotive fashion consultant John Ireland wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:15 am Logic tells me to not go back and reconsider cars I walked away from.

Logic also tells me to hold my price point.
20200718_000521_resized.jpg
FRUNKenstein wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:55 pm I think you acknowledged this a few posts ago, but there is absolutely no reason to do an IMSB replacement on a '99 tiptronic car with 149,000 miles.

I've bought and sold a lot of cars as I've had a dealer's license since 2001. I think the most effective technique to get the best price on a car is to talk about how much you like it - emphasize the positive things about it. Show the seller that you really like the car and want to buy it and will appreciate it and take good care of it. Convince them that you are their target market for selling this car. Then, and only then, let them know your reasons for not being able to pay their asking price. You've done a good job of listing those reasons - very high mileage, bluebook values, asking price of comparable cars, things that are wrong with the car (that the asking price does not take into account). Basically, you are going to convince yourself with data about what the appropriate sale price, so share that with them in an objective, non-adversarial manner.

You'll get much further with ingratiating yourself to them and speaking logic than you will with throwing out a barrage of stuff. Any car with 149,000 is going to have needs. You could justify that its value is $0 (or negative) by pointing out all the parts that are going to have to be replaced or MIGHT need to be replaced. When I sell a car, I price it according to the market and the car and its warts (all used cars have warts). When somebody throws out an absurd offer to me, I don't even reply if it is via text or email. They are wasting my time. Frankly, if your evaluation of a vehicle is that it is truly worth significantly less than an asking price, then you are probably wasting your time talking to that seller. If the car is overpriced, then let the market beat them up until they lower their price to something close to what your evaluation of value is. For example, if you think the 149k mile speed yellow tippy is worth $14,000, and they are asking $19,000, then you are too far apart to waste your time. Wait until they drop their asking to $17,000 before even bothering.

If every car you look at sells at a price higher than what you think it is worth, then that's the market beating you up. If you keep evaluating the value of cars as much less than asking, and the cars are selling based on their current asking, then you need to value the cars a little higher, or else you'll never get a car. The good news is that you are in no hurry. Time is on your side. Labor Day will be here, and the best buys will be had in October, November & December.
^^^What both of the above said.
Never gonna make you cry...

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JohnIreland
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Re: The Hunt

Post by JohnIreland » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:12 pm

I have to say that I do love the dance. The dealer with the yellow car came back and asked me to come up $580 on my offer which was $15100 out the door...so it would be $15680 out the door...if I liked it when I drove it. In the exteriors pictures the yellow car looks like it just came out of the show room. And then the ghost of Jake Raby came into my room and he pointed his long boney finger at me and rasped out the words..."The cheapest Porsche you buy will become the most expensive Porsche you buy." 149k miles and no documented service history. Everything on that car is old.

And then I picked up my file on the silver 99 w/ manual out in Hemet. $20,875 and the seller is firm. But why is he selling it after only owning it a year? Money troubles? Maybe. He put a ton of money in it. Dual row LN IMS Retrofit, new AOS, new clutch, crank seal, OE water pump w/ 170 degrees thermostat, OE ignition assembly, OE starter, new exhaust (deeper sounding?), receipts for all work, registered through July 2021. He's claiming about $8600 in work. So I'm a few thousand over my initial budget...this car sounds very very nice. I just called the seller, the car is still available, and he won't budge a dollar on his price. I said I can come out tomorrow, he said no the bellows on the spoiler has a tear in it and he is having it fixed...he wants the car to be perfect. So I'll be driving out to Hemet on Tuesday with $20875 in my pocket.
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And I am officially passing on the yellow car.

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